Highest seeded team not picked for finals

[sanddrag]

Who were the highest seeded teams not picked for finals at your event(s) and why?

[Bill_Hancoc]

We were 15th and were not picked for some reason. I dont know if this was the case or not but just something i noticed. When they were picking the alliences the pool of teams we were not in the 15th spot on the list. to me it appeared to be in order of rank since the approx 9-12 teams were on the top and it was moving twards the top. Maybe it was done by team number im not sure but that is one of the things i think was wrong

[JamesBrown]

assuming it was the same as boston the team pool was arranged by team number, from lowest to highest.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by Bill_Hancoc

We were 15th and were not picked for some reason. I dont know if this was the case or not but just something i noticed. When they were picking the alliences the pool of teams we were not in the 15th spot on the list. to me it appeared to be in order of rank since the approx 9-12 teams were on the top and it was moving twards the top. Maybe it was done by team number im not sure but that is one of the things i think was wrong

How were you ranked at the end of Friday? There has been occasions where our team has been ranked #1 or #2 for most of the event, then dropped to 9th or 10th in the last 2 rounds. We have not been picked when this happens because most other teams in the top 8 make their alliance pairing lists on Friday night, and do not include teams ranked above them.

[Travis Hoffman]

We were 16th out of 63 at New Jersey and weren't picked. We were 2-3 heading into Saturday before winning our last three matches.

There isn't a lot of time to modify your pick lists following the close of matches on Saturday, so I think it's tough for scout teams to integrate their observations of Saturday's events into the pick lists they formulated the night before.

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by T. Hoffman

We were 16th out of 63 at New Jersey and weren't picked. We were 2-3 heading into Saturday before winning our last three matches.

There isn't a lot of time to modify your pick lists following the close of matches on Saturday, so I think it's tough for scout teams to integrate their observations of Saturday's events into the pick lists they formulated the night before.

And this is the reason that I believe that FIRST should give 1/2 hour between match endings and Alliance selections. I know teams want to do strategy but they also should have all new data from Saturday before finalizing their lists.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Team 648 make's their list at the end of qualifying on Saturday. In the past it's been formed by my strict opinion on the robots but not this year b/c I don't get to watch all the matches being coach. It's worked out pretty well in the past. I use multiple factors when creating the list.

Anyways... I think the lowest team not picked was 1850 at MWR... not sure where they were ranked but they ended up being a backup for Team 1's broken bot in the Semi's.

[TimCraig]

While this is an interesting statistic, rank isn't necessarily a very good criteria to use when picking an alliance partner. After the first half of the first round of picks where the top four or five seeded teams are glad handing each other, most picks will come from the middle of the pack. There the rankings much more reflect alliance performance than individual robot performance. It's important for the scouts to evaluate each robot for its individual strengths and weaknesses.

[AJL930]

I agree with the fact that there needs to be more time for scouting. At wisconsin regional, several times during the alliance selection the teams had to pause and talk with other teammates on who to pick. There was even a time when teams seemed to pick just randomly. If it is true that teams are picking on just Rankings, they yes more time is needed to decide, at least give them 15-20 minutes.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

In many games of the past, it was almost a sure bet to pick from the highest ranked teams. This game however, needs a more prudent choice in robot function. Survivability, ability to drive away from defenders, the need to defend well and the ability to score more than other robots all rank high on strategy. If an alliance already has two good scoring robots but neither can defend well, a defender is sure to be picked. If you were a high scorer in this situation, most teams would pass over you in favor of picking a good defender robot even if that team was ranked dead last.
As many experienced people will tell you...given two similar robots, the one that drives better (practiced drive team) will be chosen. To reiterate by using an old joke...Do you know how to get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice!

[MrForbes]

We have a relatively small team, and the students split about in half, 6 scouting and the others operating and working on the robot. The scouts ignored the standings, and on Friday night they had a very good idea of which teams could complement our team. We all watched these teams carefully Saturday morning, and decided that even though these teams were not very well ranked, they would probably cover our weaknesses and we could help them with our strengths.

It turned out we were right...our alliance won the regional eliminations.

Thorough scouting really is more important than the standings. To answer the original question, we didn't even notice which teams were highest seeded, but did not get picked.

[the_short1]

Originally Posted by Steve W

And this is the reason that I believe that FIRST should give 1/2 hour between match endings and Alliance selections. I know teams want to do strategy but they also should have all new data from Saturday before finalizing their lists.

that really never dawned on me.. and i was a scout last year, and now that i remember it was hectic the last few minutes getting the scoutting list made running back and forth getting updated information from certain teams (broken etc), i second that idea of extending time before alliance pickings.

i was wondering why certain teams were not picked but not tabulating possibly 3 wins on a saturday would definately be the cause.. . cool i learned something today

[Bill_Hancoc]

Ill vote for more scouting time sice after reading this seems to clea up a lot of confusion. At the end of Friday we were NOT ranked very good since they crossed up the score of our firs match and gave us our opponets 0 when we had actually had 14 and they didnt change that until saturday.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Who were the highest seeded teams not picked for finals at your event(s) and why?

At the Davis Sacramento Regional, we were ranked 12th out of 40 teams at the end of qualifying. We were not picked because....? I have no clue why, only guesses. I think the most frustrating part is, the 37th ranked team was selected to the #1 alliance as their third member. Again, why? I have no clue only guesses.
#1 guess) Team recognition and scouting.
My team has very few members, only 6 at comp. this year, none of which will willingly approach other teams and speak with them. Not even to introduce themselves.
Scouting was carried out by most teams at this regional. The funny part is, we hosted FSN. Only had three or four teams showed interest. We had all of the team and match pairing data loaded. Not a single team spent the time to upload the match scouting data they collected. Therefore, it was an unused resource.
Admittedly, we didn't do any scouting what so ever. Our entire time was spent working to get our bot to function the way we designed it. It never even saw carpet until our first match Friday. Fortunately for us, our driver was able to adapt quickly to it and turned what could have been a major disappointment into an incredibly effective defensive robot. That one aspect, along with some very good alliance partners, is what earned us the #12 position.
Am I complaining? No, not really. I truly believe in following the rules. Otherwise, there is no need for them at all. Alliance selection this year has a new flavor and this years game has an incredible amount of strategies that can be applied to it. Thus, teams are taking a slightly different approach to alliance selection. Team make-up is incredibly important. The fact that we really could not contribute on the offensive side may have weighed heavily teams decisions to pass us over.

[MrForbes]

Hi! To expound on my post above (we were the team that picked the #37 seed)....

Scouting is indeed very important. It is unfortunate that you didn't have the personpower to do it yourself, and also disappointing that FSN didn't get used. We think FSN is a good idea, but it seems like it needs enough teams to be willing to put the effort into getting it to reach "critical mass", and that didn't happen. Finding the energy to tackle FSN on top of all the other things we had to do, is asking a lot. However, if we can get over this hurdle, it will be a net time and effort saver.

I hope there is something you can do to help your team get over shyness! I've noticed in the short time that I've been involved with FIRST that most of the other people are just like me...wierd (in a good way) and interesting and interested in meeting and talking to others like themselves. We all have at least one common interest (robots), and using this common interest seems to be a very easy way to break the ice.

In our scouting, we were looking for other teams that could perform consistently (even if the alliances they wound up in lost several or most of their matches), and that could shoot high, since we shoot low. It's also vital in this game that they be able to play defense, and be able to take the heat that others dish out. Having the ability to score at least a few points in autonomous is also a very big plus, as we seemed to get our good seed in large part by consistently scoring 5 to 10 points in auto each match....that was usually enough to get the 10 point bonus, and that bonus really contributes to the score. Being able to get up the ramp, and help others up, is also a critical ability.

The fact that you made #12 seed with such a small team, and with no practice, really says a lot about your team...you did great!