Bring Back the Rotating Light

[KTorak]

I'd like to see the Rotating lights back. I'm asuming the LEDs are done if FIRST made an update saying they aren't required to compete (though some regionals changed that). However, the rotating lights are much more visible for alliance members. But, they do not give out information such as when a robot is in autonomous or disabled. However...neither do flags The flags were cheesy in my opinion and annoying at time (more for the already over loaded queuers to do and stuff). But, I'd still like to see the rotating light...maybe if it had a cigarette lighter on it and you wired it to where you needed it....then you could easily remove it so it doesn't count for weight.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by KTorak

I'm asuming the LEDs are done if FIRST made an update saying they aren't required to compete (though some regionals changed that).

At UCF, it was "strongly encouraged" to have your LED.

Personally, I think a little tweak to the blink routines of the LEDs would do a world of good. Make human-operated a solid color, a fast blink for autonomous, and a slower blink for disabled. (Currently, it's different.) The problem for me was when it'd be three seconds until the next blinking of the light.

The flags are decent, but they seem to fall out at the most inopportune times. Combine it with a little cheesiness factor (and how are they going to handle it in the future when they want arms again?), and I really think a bright, somewhat steady light is the better route.

[mtaman02]

Originally Posted by M.O.R.T.

I concur wholeheartedly. Those things were a) awesome b) made identifying allainces easy and c) were awesome.

It's a shame that the last year (if memory serves me correctly) was 2001 where there were no "allainces" perse since all four teams were on the same team...and the only real people who needed to know which robot was which color were the refs/scorers.

Yep 2001 was the year were everyone worked together to achieve some diabolical dynamics =). The LEDS wouldn't be soo bad if FIRST could provide two more of them. I think it was in 2004 were teams actually recieved 4 LEDs that needed to be placed on all sides of the robot so that the robot was visible from all angles to see what alliance it was on. Since 2004 though first has only sent out 1 or 2 to each team.

Personally I miss the rotating light it made field reset fun b/c then you would have to vacuum up the broken bulbs left behind. However I also like the LEDS because you don't have to change lens covers and its lighter and less space & power consuming.

Either or I like them both. =)

[Al Skierkiewicz]

You want to bring back a device that does nothing for the competition, adds 2-4 lbs. (depending on model) and sucks more than 2 amps just to have flashy lights?

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

You want to bring back a device that does nothing for the competition, adds 2-4 lbs. (depending on model) and sucks more than 2 amps just to have flashy lights?

Bad cop time!

"does nothing for the competition" - except to know who's who.
"adds 2-4 lbs" - with bumpers up to 15 lbs they pale.
"sucks more than 2 amps" - after a few hundred hours they will get dimmer.

[Gdeaver]

Xenon strobes have become cheap, small and low power. Much greater visibility than LEDs.

[Ben Piecuch]

The present LED's can be used by the IFI guys as an onfield diagnostics tool. The blinking rate will change based on the status of the robot, and a "trained" eye will be able to pick up the difference on the side of the field.

What the patterns are, how/why it changes, I have no idea (I'm not an IFI guy.) So, while FIRST states that these LED's are optional, they're still a very good tool to have on the robot. Because of this feature, I don't see the LED's going away any time soon.

Now, as far as my opinion goes, in retrospect I actually did like the visibility that the rotating lights gave. Did I like the extra volume, weight, and the fragility of them? No. However, we all need to make trade-offs with our robot designs, and work within the constrains of the rules. If they re-introduce the rotating lights, it'll just be another hiccup in our 6-week build. Which reminds me, I can't believe the amount of complaints people had over a 12" long piece of 1/2" PVC. (FIRST could probably go back to the Blue and Red team numbers and people would complain about having to do twice as much work to print our a number.)

As always, there is a forum at the end of the year which you can submit suggestions and ideas to. If you feel you have a better solution, please pass that along to FIRST. Your complaints, while they may be valid, aren't helping to solve the problem.

BEN

[Jeff Rodriguez]

I thought they were back? (look in the bottom left corner)


If you really want them, you can use them as a non-functional decoration, as 121 did this year. They change the lens cover as needed to indicate their alliance color, just like old times.
Their light caught my eye more than once, and was very visible.

[Chris Hibner]

I'm going to agree with Ben. This is the first year that I have been able to easily identify which robots are on which alliance. I find that it's much easier with the flags than it was with the light.

In addition to that, I also really agree with Al - I hated the current draw, I hated the weight, I hated finding a place to package it, and I hated the awful grinding noise those lights made. I was happy to see them go.

The LEDs were useless in my opinion. The flags solve the problem quite well.

[Tim Baird]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

You want to bring back a device that does nothing for the competition, adds 2-4 lbs. (depending on model) and sucks more than 2 amps just to have flashy lights?

Well, if the weight of the battery didn't count towards the robot weight, and perhaps the light had it's own smaller, stand alone battery that also didn't count towards the robot weight it wouldn't be that bad. I say make it a little bit smaller and it would be more reasonable, if anything, it'll be better than the flags.

Plus, the added weight isn't all that bad ... it will increase the frictional force between the wheels and the carpet!

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Allison K

This would be a wonderful thread for a poll.

Ranked...
1st choice - Flags (Pros of flags outwewigh the cheesiness)
2nd choice - Rotating lights (best visibility)
3rd choice - LED's

Yeah, what Allison said.

Sanddrag, thanks for the thread. Would you like to add a poll?

[Rob]

[quote=Ogre
If you really want them, you can use them as a non-functional decoration, as 121 did this year. They change the lens cover as needed to indicate their alliance color, just like old times.
Their light caught my eye more than once, and was very visible.[/QUOTE]

We chose to use the light as a decoration for the classic FIRST appeal as well as siliness factor.

It is the light from 2003. The light, lexan and velcro mounting bracket, wire and spike weigh under a pound together.

The light is situated at the bottom of our lexan drum/spiral, and actually looks pretty slick on the field.

Personally, I think the flags were awesome in helping identify the alliances (although between the bumpers and flags some matches did look like bumper cars...) In my opinion, the flags are winners, especially if they can be secured from falling out in the future. (In a semi-final round, Gael Force shot Pink's flag completely over the driver station and off the field!)

Good luck everyone!

Rob

[Tim Baird]

Originally Posted by Rob

(In a semi-final round, Gael Force shot Pink's flag completely over the driver station and off the field!)

That was my main complaint with the flags. If there was a collar at the top of the PVC tube that would tighten around the flag and hopefully hold it in, then it would be much better.

Of course, if it wouldn't come out from a ball hit, and instead took the hit and deflected the ball, then that would give teams the ability to strategically place the flag and give themselves a probably unfair height advantage when playing defense. So, who knows?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by Tim Baird

That was my main complaint with the flags. If there was a collar at the top of the PVC tube that would tighten around the flag and hopefully hold it in, then it would be much better.

Of course, if it wouldn't come out from a ball hit, and instead took the hit and deflected the ball, then that would give teams the ability to strategically place the flag and give themselves a probably unfair height advantage when playing defense. So, who knows?

In Wisconsin, a team actually scored a flag into the high goal.

[KenWittlief]

there is something deeply ingrained in our subconscous, when we see a rotating red or blue light it triggers an almost instinctive emotional response:

"DANGER! WARNING! EMERGENCY! POWER! CAUTION! STAY BACK!"

The old rotating lights had that sense of seriousness: this is a powerfull dangerous machine - stay back!"

You just dont get that same emotional punch from a bunch of blinking LEDS, or bicycle flags.