Biased reports, state your opinion. . .

[wsansewjs]

Based on my experience browsing around here and hearing from what other people are saying about robots this year. I believed there are too many biased reports based on their own experiences at regional(s). People are saying that that team is the best and other team is the best and on and on. I am not accusing anyone here at all. To make this situation more sense for everyone, I believe everyone needs to bring a sort of evidence to the same table as much as everyone else. There are so many reports scattered all over this CD website.

So, what I suggest is that we need to open a section of forum or have an area in CD to bring all the evidences of that robot of a team who have performed well THIS YEAR in one area so everyone can view all the finest robots out there in the same area. The robot needs a link to the result of a regional, a video or two, photo, general specification about the robot and any extras.

THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM but a suggestion to reorganize all the good reports into one area. This is an excellent source for the scouts to gain from. Then again, Please express your opinion here, be negative or positive but dont be hasty. I am willing to hear it all and make this part of FIRST better through the people, not officials.

-WJS

[coastertux]

Whenever people talk about their robot or one of their friend's robots the report will be inherently biased. If we want useful scouting info, I think it would be best for teams to share what they have learned about other's robots. Also, once you hang out here for a while, you get good at figuring out who is making unsupported claims and who is telling the facts as they are.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by wsansewjs

Based on my experience browsing around here and hearing from what other people are saying about robots this year. I believed there are too many biased reports based on their own experiences at regional(s). People are saying that that team is the best and other team is the best and on and on. I am not accusing anyone here at all. To make this situation more sense for everyone, I believe everyone needs to bring a sort of evidence to the same table as much as everyone else. There are so many reports scattered all over this CD website.

So, what I suggest is that we need to open a section of forum or have an area in CD to bring all the evidences of that robot of a team who have performed well THIS YEAR in one area so everyone can view all the finest robots out there in the same area. The robot needs a link to the result of a regional, a video or two, photo, general specification about the robot and any extras.

THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM but a suggestion to reorganize all the good reports into one area. This is an excellent source for the scouts to gain from. Then again, Please express your opinion here, be negative or positive but dont be hasty. I am willing to hear it all and make this part of FIRST better through the people, not officials.

-WJS

People talk about what they know (they're own robot or a robot they seen).
I would rather they talked about things they know than make things up or specualte about things ( a bigger problem around here recently) that they really know nothing about.

[Alekat]

I'm going to take one thing you mentioned an fly with it. How about a section in CD media where each team is allowed to personalize a page with one video and a limited number of photos, basically a team website within CD. Photos could still be submitted like usual, but I'm sure direct video hosting by CD would be widely embraced. This would support more first-hand evidence of robot performance by more than just the exceptional robots.

[coastertux]

I like that idea Alex! The only problem I see with that is bandwidth...I know CD already uses a lot of bandwidth as it is. Maybe support embeded Google Video?

[Gdeaver]

There is allot of video of the competitions. Watch the video and draw your conclusions. Also, watch matches for how alliances executed their coordinated strategy. In the video you can see alliances that played as individuals and alliances the worked together. Some top seeded alliances were defeated this year by lesser opponents that executed a coordinated strategy. For teams going to Atlanta, There are several weeks to look over the teams and update your play book. You team does have a play book right?

[Brandon Holley]

ChiefDelphi Forums ... honestly its just something that is hard to deal with when it comes down to competition...people claim their bot is the best, or one they've seen is the best, but like koko ed said, you only know what you see. Speculation is what needs to end....and if we all just sit back and wait out the just under 4 weeks, we really can see whos the best...

[Squishylizard]

Originally Posted by coastertux

I like that idea Alex! The only problem I see with that is bandwidth...I know CD already uses a lot of bandwidth as it is. Maybe support embeded Google Video?

I think something like this would be better placed in the
FIRSTwiki

It already has a place where people can edit their team's information and a yearly reference sheet for every robot could be made and integrated into some form of chart or database.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Squishylizard

It already has a place where people can edit their team's information and a yearly reference sheet for every robot could be made and integrated into some form of chart or database.

I don't see how this would be any less biased though? I think two of the main problems occur in that

1) NO ONE has seen ALL the robots play. It's just not possible. Therefore, there is no one that can offer a fully comprehensive ranking, IN THEIR OPINION, of the robots and gameplay styles

2) most of everything on here is opinion. Yes, you can offer video and testimonies, but chances are most people aren't going to watch all the matches of the teams in question and compare them. Even then, gameplay styles may be so different that you can't actually tell who's better until you see them play eachother. Statistics are ok, but there are often outliers (such as a dq and 0 points), and the sample size is generally way too small, with too many factors (such as alliance partners) to draw any definitive conclusions.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

This is a forum where people give their OPINIONS.

When someone asks "which robot is best" they are asking for your opinion. Since not all the robots have had matches against one another there is no definitive proof either way.

And before someone says "scouting" for proof. Scouting is the scouter's "interpretation" of how effective the robot is, and only against specific opponents. Thus scouting is only empirical data, which could be flawed.

TBH, when you ask for an opinion, you should get an opinion. When you ask for facts, make sure those facts can be backed up by real (and not interpreted) data.

[Squishylizard]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

And before someone says "scouting" for proof. Scouting is the scouter's "interpretation" of how effective the robot is, and only against specific opponents. Thus scouting is only empirical data, which could be flawed.

TBH, when you ask for an opinion, you should get an opinion. When you ask for facts, make sure those facts can be backed up by real (and not interpreted) data.

I think what this is all about is akin to a sport like MLB. People can debate endlessly which team has better strategies against which other teams and which players are the best in which situations but I think what would be most helpful would be the development and tracking of certain statistics such as ERA and all the other stats associated with a sport like baseball. This is particularly difficult though because of the nature of the changes in the game from year to year and the relatively short season. It would be extremely helpful if someone else could work with this, for instance, for this year's competition a stat such as points scored by all a robot's alliances when the robot was on them over points scored against during those matches for a certain robot would show good scores for offensive and defensive powerhouses.

Just throughing thoughts to the wind but maybe this is what people are looking for?

[AcesPease]

Some good things have been said about people only being able to report on what they have seen, and sharing scouting.

I would like to add that more use can be made of the robot showcase here on CD, for pictures and links to videos.

As for bias: You need to understand where people are coming from when they post, there are probably no unbiased comparisons of robot performance until you can see them together on the field in Atlanta.

With this in mind there is one solid source of unbiased information. All the regionals are competitive (you may think your local regional is more competitive, but that is a very subjective argument), so if you want to know which teams are really performing look at the Regional Winners and Finalists. To make it to the finals of a Regional requires a robot that functions well and a drive team that knows how to work with their alliance partners. These teams are the ones to watch in Atlanta.

[kborer22]

when you want the best robots of course its going to be opinionated, unless you can go to every regional. But for example if i said that 25 is one of the best shooters, and they averaged 80+pts at nj, won the regional, and then went to las Vegas and went 17-0, and won the regional i don't what more evidence you would want, but its already been said, we will find out in a few weeks at the championships...cant wait!

[thoughtful]

How about this:

We currently have some great scouting softwares like STAMP. Now all we need is a central database in which the team can "upload" thier data once they have scouted at a regional. This was we can clearly have an indication of the "best" robots.

This can be easily done, if a group of teams agree on using a standardized format of scouting e.t.c. And will benefit everyone in the end.