Two Story Pit Area?

[sanddrag]

Suppose we designed a two story pit area with either a ladder or staircase to get people to the second floor and a small elevator to get supplies and robots to the second floor. Suppose it fit totally int he 10x10 footprint and broke down enough such that it would be not too difficult to bring into the arena. Suppose we did all the engineering analysis to show that it is completely safe and in no danger of collapsing. Do you think FIRST would allow it?

It would ust be so insanely awesome. Of course, with probably 50+ vertical feet to work with, why stop at just one story right?
First floor: lobby
second floor: public relations
3rd floor: repairs shop
4th floor: programming and testing
5th floor: strategy
and so on...

You've got to admit a multi story pit area would be about the coolest thing ever in FIRST.

[Adam Richards]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Suppose we designed a two story pit area with either a ladder or staircase to get people to the second floor and a small elevator to get supplies and robots to the second floor. Suppose it fit totally int he 10x10 footprint and broke down enough such that it would be not too difficult to bring into the arena. Suppose we did all the engineering analysis to show that it is completely safe and in no danger of collapsing. Do you think FIRST would allow it?

It would ust be so insanely awesome. Of course, with probably 50+ vertical feet to work with, why stop at just one story right?
First floor: lobby
second floor: public relations
3rd floor: repairs shop
4th floor: programming and testing
5th floor: strategy
and so on...

You've got to admit a multi story pit area would be about the coolest thing ever in FIRST.

No, since the pit area you are allowed this year is 10x10x10.

RTFM!

[Billfred]

Team 1320 out of South Carolina had a two-story pit last year at Palmetto. They couldn't do it this year, since FIRST banned multi-story pit areas, but it was fun to look at last year.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Team 1320 out of South Carolina had a two-story pit last year at Palmetto. They couldn't do it this year, since FIRST banned multi-story pit areas, but it was fun to look at last year.

Pictures please?

[anna~marie]

I think I would be super confused... you could loose people and scouting would be, well, odd

[Katie Reynolds]

While it would be cool ...

7.7.4 NEW: Team Stations
These designated spaces help organize team placement and help team members, judges, and visitors find teams easily. Please keep your numbers visible and aligned. They are set up to be as equal as possible. Each team's pit station will have a table and power outlet.
For safety and because of insurance regulations, teams cannot build any structure that supports people or items for storage above the work area in their pit space. No structures should be higher than 10 feet above the floor and must safely support any signs or displays mounted to the structure. FIRST will require the removal of any pit structure that is deemed unsafe by event management personnel and local committee members.

[sven]

The amount of freight elevators needed to keep that comp. running smoothly scares me

[MasonMM]

i think years ago we had some ideas drawn out for a 2 story pit. I belive the top was more of a lounge area and the bottom was reserved for robot maintance. It was never done for safety concerns i believe.

[Qbranch]

OSHA Say:

1910.23(e)(3)(iv)

The anchoring of posts and framing of members for railings of all types shall be of such construction that the completed structure shall be capable of withstanding a load of at least 200 pounds applied in any direction at any point on the top rail.

1910.28(a)(4)

Scaffolds and their components shall be capable of supporting without failure at least four times the maximum intended load.

1910.28(a)(20)

Tools, materials, and debris shall not be allowed to accumulate in quantities to cause a hazard.

1910.28(e)(5)

Where there is danger of material falling from the scaffold, a wire mesh or other enclosure shall be provided between the guardrail and the toeboard.

Anyhow, to make the extra story comply with OSHA, the thing's gonna be heavy.

Hey, on the note of OSHA:

While I was buying some parts for a robot I'm building for fun, I ran accross the electrical specs for that red main battery connector FIRST uses. Did you know its only rated for 50 amps?!

That means that there is a 120 amp breaker behind a 50 amp connector...

anyone else thinking this is stupid and is a safety/fire hazard?

sorry about being off topic, just wanted to tell someone that.

[SamC]

Why not just find a place at a regional where thier is a 2 story bulding? Then just have spots reserved for teams on both stories.... seems like that is a safe plan!

[Andy A.]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

Hey, on the note of OSHA:

While I was buying some parts for a robot I'm building for fun, I ran across the electrical specs for that red main battery connector FIRST uses. Did you know its only rated for 50 amps?!

That means that there is a 120 amp breaker behind a 50 amp connector...

anyone else thinking this is stupid and is a safety/fire hazard?

This has been noted before. The basis for using a connector that is seemingly underrated is that, in 2 minutes, 120 amps could not compromise the connector. The key here is the time factor. If matches where significantly longer, then a lot of rules surrounding electrical safety might have to change.

In fact, if you looked at the average amount of current pulled over the whole two minutes, I bet it would be under 50 amps.

The connector is capable of carrying much higher currents over a 2 minute time span then it's rating would otherwise suggest. There is no danger from a properly cared for connector. You can use higher rated connectors if you wish, assuming rules don't change, as long as inspectors are satisfied that they meet all the requirements that the kit Anderson meets.

-Andy A.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Andy A.

You can use higher rated connectors if you wish, assuming rules don't change, as long as inspectors are satisfied that they meet all the requirements that the kit Anderson meets.

Right now, the rules don't actually allow for a more robust solution, even if you wanted one. See <R57>, which states that "[t]he Battery must use the Anderson Connector", meaning the red SB50.

As for the 2-story pit area, I'm wondering whether a team would actually go to the trouble of getting a structural engineer's stamp on their pit area blueprints, and then having it verified for proper construction once it was assembled. For liability reasons, I can't see FIRST ever allowing anything less than that, even notwithstanding the item in the manual which clearly prohibits these sorts of things.

[Kyle Love]

We thought about making a second story lounge and an area for the pit crew to take a load off of their feet. But, the sheer logistics of easily being able to set it up are mind boggling and well, it wouldn't be worth it. Plus, its not legal. But hey, we all can dream of a lounge area....

[Sean Schuff]

Originally Posted by Kyle Love

We thought about making a second story lounge and an area for the pit crew to take a load off of their feet. But, the sheer logistics of easily being able to set it up are mind boggling and well, it wouldn't be worth it. Plus, its not legal. But hey, we all can dream of a lounge area....

How about at IRI where the FIRST rules are a little more, well, flexible!

[sanddrag]

Good idea, but I'm quickly coming to realize the cost to build such a structure would be in the thousands.

But I was thinking something. The footprint space it takes for a person to stand is not even as large as for an FRC robot. So it could be a people An 8 foot stroke pneumatic cylinder. It would be perfect. Like a 4 inch bore clylinder running at 120 psi.