Complete Shipping Failure

[sanddrag]

I've never had anything too large shipped (15" monitor was the largest I think) but I can tell you this. About half my packages that come through UPS appear to have been dropped.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by UlTiMaTeP

They will still be stacked

Freight is regularly packaged in non-stackable forms. Consider goods shipped on pallets and shrinkwrapped, for example. Or cardboard shipping containers on skids. Or 300 gallon tanks. These things might be able to handle another object being placed on top of them, but the material handlers will use their judgment in deciding whether or not to actually do so, because they, like the rest of us, want to avoid damage (and corresponding liability).

I realize that FIRST says that crates should be stackable, but if you violate 6.3.2, it's an issue between you and FIRST (and FIRST doesn't really enforce this, or especially care). Your carrier is still obligated to take care of your freight, provided that it meets their own requirements for transport and storage. If your container meets their specifications, and they stack it, or invert it, and it's marked in such a way as to clearly state that these actions are unacceptable, then you should easily be able to file a claim with them for the damage incurred. (For example, FedEx's requirements for freight are here, and here.)

This isn't to say that a strong crate is a bad idea—because even normal handling is often hard on packaging. Just give the carrier some credit for being able to read and understand simple instructions. They're not generally in the business of breaking their customers' wares.

[Wolf103FM]

If you think FedEX is bad about handling things, be glad that UPS is in no way involved, When I worked in a Shipping dept, sometimes boxes would come in that were so beaten up that they just fell apart, were completely crushed, sometimes soaking wet, even got an empty box with a hole in it once, contents nowhere to be found.
Our crate has faired pretty well, just a small tear in the vinyl U on the door so far, after 2 years, and a few splinters on the edges here and there

[UlTiMaTeP]

Of course our crate has came back with marks and scrapes on it, and a few splinters, but we have never seen these horrible things people talk of. While an occasional accident does occur, it might be the dryage company's fault more than FedEx. Most of the problems I see relate to very weak crates that had no framing. Remember most of the unloading, loading is done by the contractor from the warehouse to the site, not fedex.

[379Robocat]

When we arrived to our pit in Philly this year our robot crate was damaged. It looked like the person on the fork life didn't have it low enough and the lift went right through the wood. The bottom part of the other side of our robot was ripped open and our battery box inside was ripped apart with just batteries laying there. They took off all the locks on our crate and left some other minor damages that didn't need to be worried about. We had a crate since 2001 that had been modified to fir the robot and this year we built a brand new crate and it got damaged. As soon as we seen this we went up to pit admin and they said to write down everything that was wrong and damaged and that they would handle it from there. As far as I know nothing has been done about it. Thankfully our robot was not damaged. I hope that nothing will happen to anyone Else's robot like I had heard. Hope you get everything resolved.

[UlTiMaTeP]

The bottom of the crate and bottom 12 inches or of each side need to be reinforced for forklift pickups. When the fork lifts pick up the crates out of a truck they slide them back and forth using only the lip so they can slide them in.

[KenWittlief]

If your crate has been damaged in transit then you need to get assistance from someone who builds crates as part of their job.

A crate needs to be very solid to endure normal handling enroute. If the crate slips off a forklift then it needs to be even more robust to survive.

If your robot is tie-wrapped or strapped to the bottom of the crate then it is going to take a pounding.

[Dillon Compton]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

If your robot is tie-wrapped or strapped to the bottom of the crate then it is going to take a pounding.

We always use bungee cords; they keep the robot in place but have enough stretch that the robot can move a bit and not completly absorb all the shock.

[bhweezer]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I can beat you all. After LSR, 57's crate just disappeared for about a week. Yellow Freight said they'd given it to Fed Ex. Fed Ex said they never got it, and it was nowhere to be found at the arena. Then it just magically appeared at Fed Ex and got to our shop, also in Houston, shortly after. Granted we've ended up with a crate, eventually, but I was pretty worried about the large amount of expensive tools we had packed in that crate.

The same thing happened to us after Lonestar. We spent like four hours on the phone for Fed Ex to finally say, 'OH! Your robot is still in Houston!' The robot was shipped back to the school a few days later.

[UlTiMaTeP]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

Freight is regularly packaged in non-stackable forms. Consider goods shipped on pallets and shrinkwrapped, for example. Or cardboard shipping containers on skids. Or 300 gallon tanks. These things might be able to handle another object being placed on top of them, but the material handlers will use their judgment in deciding whether or not to actually do so, because they, like the rest of us, want to avoid damage (and corresponding liability).

I realize that FIRST says that crates should be stackable, but if you violate 6.3.2, it's an issue between you and FIRST (and FIRST doesn't really enforce this, or especially care). Your carrier is still obligated to take care of your freight, provided that it meets their own requirements for transport and storage. If your container meets their specifications, and they stack it, or invert it, and it's marked in such a way as to clearly state that these actions are unacceptable, then you should easily be able to file a claim with them for the damage incurred. (For example, FedEx's requirements for freight are here, and here.)

This isn't to say that a strong crate is a bad idea—because even normal handling is often hard on packaging. Just give the carrier some credit for being able to read and understand simple instructions. They're not generally in the business of breaking their customers' wares.

The contractors stack crates during storage while you are at the event. The tunnel access to the dome last year at Nationals, if you remember correctly, had all the crates lined up stacked on each other. Crates will be stacked and we have to accept that.

[Bill_Hancoc]

This probably isnt as bad but still should be added to the list of complaints


When i was sitting in the stands of WMR during the finals i happened to be looking over at the are by where the dj was and i saw our crate going by and then i saw them almost drop ot right there and tip it on its side. By random chance of pure luck my dad just happened to be standing under it as he was walking to the stands and he caught it.

i dont know if this is a fedex failure or a somebody else failurs but these people need to be more careful

[UlTiMaTeP]

Originally Posted by Dillon Compton

We always use bungee cords; they keep the robot in place but have enough stretch that the robot can move a bit and not completly absorb all the shock.

We put a 4'x4'x6" piece of styrofoam with multiple ties to hold it down, and we build a special frame for it to sit on the styrofoam, but cant move around.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by UlTiMaTeP

We put a 4'x4'x6" piece of styrofoam with multiple ties to hold it down, and we build a special frame for it to sit on the styrofoam, but cant move around.

yes, if your bot it fastened to the floor of the crate then any shock or impact to the crate is transferred directly into the frame of your robot.

The best solution is padding UNDER your robot, all four sides and the top.

Imagine your crate going over Niagara Falls => pack it accordingly (esp if you are attending the Toronto Regional :^)

[dtengineering]

I agree that the damage to your crate and robot is unacceptable. I would like to take a moment, however, to stress my appreciation not only for the free shipping that FedEx donates, but also the extra assistance they have given me with regards to crossing the border. No, it's not that hard, but I always seem to need a little bit of help from the shipping and brokerage companies and it is always there.

As we have competed at both Portland and Toronto the past two years, we're probably pretty high up there in the "robot miles logged" category, and I have been very, very pleased with the service we have received. In fact this year, a piece of coroplast (about 2 sq ft) that was forgotten lying on the top of our crate on ship day, not only made it to Portland, then to Toronto, but also back to Vancouver.

In fact, the one time we did have damage to our crate (last year) it was because we didn't build it well enough.

Yes, shipping problems happen (ask team #4!) and need to be dealt with, but with over 1,000 teams and 30 events, perhaps we should recognize them for the rare occurance that they are.

I haven't searched to see if there is a white paper on crate building. We all assume, I think, that it is a simple thing, but certainly having examples of how to build durable, reasonably lightweight crates might be a big help to rookie teams who probably havent really even thought of a crate until the week before ship!

Jason

P.S. When not using the donated FedEx shipping (FedEx freight won't go East-West within Canada for some strange reason) we have had excellent service from Vince at http://www.arrowtranz.com/ It was $350 to get our 400 lb+ crate back to Vancouver from Toronto. It took about a week. He also got us across the border to Portland with no problems, too... took about two days and $250.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

Yes, shipping problems happen (ask team #4!) and need to be dealt with, but with over 1,000 teams and 30 events, perhaps we should recognize them for the rare occurance that they are.

And I suppose we should give credit to Firestone tires for blowing out and killing only a couple dozen people out of millions that drove on them? Saying that screwups are okay as long as they are doing things right more than they are doing things wrong is not a logic I like to live by.