Strikes me kind of uneasy...

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by Greg Perkins

Hello,

I've been watching the webcast this morning, and listened to what the Secretary of Commerce was talking about. As I listened, I began to think of how disrespectful his speech was to our visitors from other countries as he kept saying how America is the greatest country in the world, and on and on. Gauranteed our economy is top-notch, but I dont think an international competition is a place to gloat and promote America's potlitical stature. Being a proud American, I can only imagine what it must've felt like to be sitting there, from another country, and have to listen to that; however, If I was in their shoes, I would've felt disrespected. I know FIRST needs political support to grow, however to talk so highly of our country in front of others shows us how egotistical as a country we really are.
Just my $.02

~Greg

Thats exactly what I said. I was watching him talk and I was thinking...there are more than just US teams. I agree that it's his job to make sure the US is in good shape, so there would be a small reason, but I didn't think that it was necessary to elaborate that much on it.

Not much you can really do about it anyway. But I agree that it was a little bit over the top.

[TubaMorg]

OK, now for my 2 cents. I've been debating with myself about posting because I don't generally enjoy political discussions, because whether anyone likes it or not that's what this is.

It has become a disturbing (to me) trend over the years for Americans to feel guilty about being American. This guilt manifests itself in several different ways as in cringing when a political leader touts America's greatness in public. Is it in bad taste? I don't think so, even if it takes place at an international competition. This is an American speaking proudly of America's greatness on American soil. I would expect no less. Everyone should be proud of their nationality and what they bring to the world stage. I have been to several countries where they not only brag about themselves, but also denigrate America. That is the international community's favorite past time. Why? Because we are the greatest country (by any number of methods of keeping score) the face of the earth has ever seen. There are plenty of people out there that hate us for our greatness without us feeling contrite about it. The argument that we are disliked because of our "arrogance" is invalid. If we were a third-world country any display of arrogance would be of little consequence to other countries. There is nothing wrong with being great and being proud of it. There should NEVER be anything wrong with it. When American citizens begin to feel guilty about being Americans, there begins the erosion of our greatness.

[KenWittlief]

Ok, I will try on someone elses shoes.

Let say FIRST is not an American thing. Lets say FIRST was founded in Japan, and the Championship is held every year in Tokyo.

Im sitting there in Tokyo at the opening ceremonies, there are 330 teams from Japan, 4 from Canada, one from Brazil, two from england, one from Israel, one from Africa

and one team from the US.

The speaker points out what a great country Japan is. Would I feel upset?

Not a bit!

After all, if I had traveled thousands of miles with 20 HS students to attend an event that only happens in that country, I would have to agree with him: "You got some really great things going on here - thats why we are here!"

[Tetraman]

It's just not very gratiously professional in my opinion.

[Adam Richards]

Originally Posted by TubaMorg

I have been to several countries where they not only brag about themselves, but also denigrate America. That is the international community's favorite past time. Why? Because we are the greatest country (by any number of methods of keeping score) the face of the earth has ever seen.

And that self-righteous attitude is the reason why they "denigrate" us. Whether or not we actually are the "greatest country the face of the earth has ever seen" is inconsequential, but the reason a third of the world hates America is because we try to rub it in everyone's faces, showing them how much "better" we are than them. If we truly were the "greatest country," we would have learned a long time ago that our political leaders and diplomats need not go around bragging this to everyone at any given chance, but rather spend that wasted time doing something more productive, such as proving to the world through actions, not meaningless, unbased words. You can always say you are great, but unless you prove that on a continuous basis, the words mean nothing.

__

On an unrelated note, could we have this moved to the Chit-Chat forum, or perhaps even Moderated discussion to prevent any problems that may arise?

[Steve W]

Now for my 2 cents Canadian.

I am use to politicians getting up and being blowhards. That is almost expected. I do however take offence to someone in FIRST telling me that the US is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yes there are a large majority of great Americans that do not rub things in our face. In fact I would say that 99% of Americans in FIRST are great people that look at others for who they are and not what nation that they come from. They symbolize what is good about FIRST. Changing society for the better. I believe that if more people were like Woodie and let their actions speak for themselves we would be much better off.

And please don't forget that others believe that their country is the best in the world. Even in FIRST there are bigger regionals than anywhere else in the USA.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by Steve W

Now for my 2 cents Canadian.

I am use to politicians getting up and being blowhards. That is almost expected. I do however take offence to someone in FIRST telling me that the US is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yes there are a large majority of great Americans that do not rub things in our face. In fact I would say that 99% of Americans in FIRST are great people that look at others for who they are and not what nation that they come from. They symbolize what is good about FIRST. Changing society for the better. I believe that if more people were like Woodie and let their actions speak for themselves we would be much better off.

And please don't forget that others believe that their country is the best in the world. Even in FIRST there are bigger regionals than anywhere else in the USA.

I feel better if this is what others believe as well. It just made me feel really bad cause I wouldn't like it.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

One of the great things about FIRST is that it gives the students real world experiance.

The speech by the Secretary of Commerce is no different. Many times when a politician speaks he has an agenda or political message he wants to get out.

In this case his motivation seems fairly straight forward -- His job is to promote commerce in the US. To do so, he needs to portray a picture of economic expansion. To do otherwise would be counter productive. Imagine if he, instead of talking about US success, talked about the US economy tanking (hypothetically). If he did so, it would be front page news in the New York Times and Dow Jones would probably lose 200 points. So he will not talk poorly about the economy unless it is absolutely needed.

FIRSTers have the advantage of being able to listen to these politicians and learning how to filter the retoric from the substance.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

FIRSTers have the advantage of being able to listen to these politicians and learning how to filter the rhetoric from the substance.

In this case the filter would be an impermeable membrane. All rhetoric, no substance.

[lukevanoort]

I'm Canadian. I'm American. I happen to be a dual citizen. So, I can see it from both sides. And, remember that saying that goes something like "A truly smart person realizes how stupid they are." No country is the "best," but the States has some advantages, some disadvantages, so does Canada, so do other countries. I prefer Canada, but I don't walk up to people and say "Canada's the best country in the world," I might say "Canada is so much cleaner than the States." Likewise Canada's unemployment rate is higher than the States'. So, even if I am technically American too, it offends me to hear this, because it has to be one of the most arrogant things to say, and is in particularly poor taste in an international situation, why do you think the "arrogant American" stereotype came from? Why does the guy need to even say this? He could talk about international cooperation, global markets, education, and it would have been just as applicable to the multinational audience.

[nehalita]

Personally, I feel that even though this was the Secretary of Commerce's job, this wasn't the place to say things like this. "Great" is a relative term and even Einstein said, "Relativity applies to physics, not ethics" (see signature for emphasis).
It doesn't matter who thinks what, unless you want to hear all sides of the story from all parties, making an assertion like this should not be done...especially not here.

Of course, this is over now and we can do nothing about it (or can we?).

$0.02.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Adam Richards

And that self-righteous attitude is the reason why they "denigrate" us. Whether or not we actually are the "greatest country the face of the earth has ever seen" is inconsequential...

There is a flip side / other shoe here that no one has mentioned.

99% of the people in this country can trace their family back to two people who lived in another country (mostly Europe) and came here at some point with little more than the clothes they were wearing

and the reason they came here is they were either destitute, or they were unwanted in their own homeland.

My grandparents came to the US in 1921 from Germany with nothing but hope for a better life.

So, yeah, we do walk with a bit of a swagger in the US, because when you get down to it, we are the rejects the other countries discarded, and instead of floundering the the 'wilderness' of N. America, we prospered instead.

Prospered and surpassed the nations that had no use for us.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

There is a flip side / other shoe here that no one has mentioned.

99% of the people in this country can trace their family back to two people who lived in another country (mostly Europe) and came here at some point with little more than the clothes they were wearing

Since Secretary Gutierrez is one of those people who came from another country himself and is now the Secretary of Commerce (!), I'll cut him some slack.....

I'm impressed that he came to talk to us, and recognizes the importance of FIRST

[Pavan Dave]

I noticed most of our speakers did that too, and I think it was disrespectful expecially when they talked about America being the Greatest Country in the world infront of forenign people and all kinds of stuff. I hope the countries were not offended and I hope our speakers next year watch what they say next year.

Also I agree with the person above me. I myself am Indian and I heard someone on the team infront of us look over at me as soon as they said that. Just because there are Indian Engineers doesnt mean they dont work as hard as others and that they didn't earn their spots and jobs and that statement offended me a little. I think that that attitude is unacceptable in FIRST.

Pavan

[IrishPirate]

I was with Llama at the St Louis Regional for the "keep the Chinese and the Indians at bay" incident. (Note: Chinese and Indians not China and India) I don't think that this is a political issue because very one I talked to on my team was offended; mentors, students and parents, from all over the political spectrum. Once back home the incident would come up occasionally in conversation but most of us just felt that it was one persons misinterpretation of what FIRST is about.

Once we heard similar remarks two days in a row at nationals in front of our foreign guests we were again shocked at this misinterpretation (in our eyes) of what FIRST means.

I'm not offended by politicians being patriotic, what is offensive is the idea that FIRST is about beating others rather than improving ourselves.