Strikes me kind of uneasy...

[FIRST Rocks]

Originally Posted by TubaMorg

OK, now for my 2 cents. I've been debating with myself about posting because I don't generally enjoy political discussions, because whether anyone likes it or not that's what this is.

It has become a disturbing (to me) trend over the years for Americans to feel guilty about being American. This guilt manifests itself in several different ways as in cringing when a political leader touts America's greatness in public. Is it in bad taste? I don't think so, even if it takes place at an international competition. This is an American speaking proudly of America's greatness on American soil. I would expect no less. Everyone should be proud of their nationality and what they bring to the world stage. I have been to several countries where they not only brag about themselves, but also denigrate America. That is the international community's favorite past time. Why? Because we are the greatest country (by any number of methods of keeping score) the face of the earth has ever seen. There are plenty of people out there that hate us for our greatness without us feeling contrite about it. The argument that we are disliked because of our "arrogance" is invalid. If we were a third-world country any display of arrogance would be of little consequence to other countries. There is nothing wrong with being great and being proud of it. There should NEVER be anything wrong with it. When American citizens begin to feel guilty about being Americans, there begins the erosion of our greatness.

I agree with you that he has the right to be proud of his country; I am too. But he needs to realize that he is speaking to not just Americans, but to people from around the world. At the very least, he could have acknowledged the fact that FIRST is an international competition and there were teams present from around the world. I guess he didn't notice all those flags of other countries hanging right above him. There is a difference between pride and arrogance. It's no wonder so much of the world hates America. There was a time when people around the world dreamed of a better life in America; now in a lot of the world people burn American flags in the streets.

My team was sitting right behind a team from Israel when the secretary was speaking. I could tell they did not enjoy listening to the secretary. I hope, in the future, the speakers are properly informed that there are teams form other countries present.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by FIRST Rocks

I hope, in the future, the speakers are properly informed that there are teams form other countries present.

Amen to that!

[Andrew Blair]

Alright, I will admit that both the Secretary of Commerce and a senator on Saturday did make some aggressive comments regarding America, though I feel that much of that was not meant to bash other countries, but rather to encourage the majority of the community: American youth. They spoke at a competition which is highly regarded as the organization which is making huge progress towards bringing in the next generation of engineers, most of whom were American. Perhaps some comments could've been edited, but for the most part, they were accurate and *not* demeaning. They were speaking in America, to mostly americans, and intended to encourage this majority who will build america

Secondly, I would like to note one of the major driving points Dean created FIRST for. Yes, FIRST has exploded, and as a result other nations have joined in, but the original purpose, that we still see integrated into FIRST speeches by FIRST founders, is that FIRST will bring America back to greatness. At kickoff we hear speeches citing stats regarding the number of U.S. versus American engineering degrees. We hear about Americans making it to the moon and accomplishing great things in the past, and that we are the next generation to create these wonders. Dean himself made the point, though carefully, that industrialized nations, have a huge new amount of competitors.

Tact and courtesy are always important on the international stage, but we must remember: FIRST is not an internationally devoted competition, in the sense that it's run out of America, with mostly American money, and with mostly American interests. In truth, major U.S. contributors (NASA, GM, Ford, Delphi, Google, GE, etc...) expect their money to return to them in a tangible way, and not just by making the whole world smarter. They want America smarter.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone from other countries, but FIRST is, at it's roots, american. However, a huge amount amount of growth has been generously encouraged by new countries, and for this, we are very grateful. Our community is always ready to welcome new members, even from different countries, but regardless, we still intend to serve our original purposes. Though ready to help others, Americans should stay intensly proud of what they have.

[NeedMoreEngines]

I agree with what Greg (thread starter) is saying. It does show how egotistical America is. However, since the Secretary of Commerce probably isn't "current" with FIRST happenings, I'm not sure he felt, or even knew, that there would be as many international teams as there are.
I want to know how the teams from other countries feel about this.

I mean no disrespect to the Secretary when I say this.

[deficite]

I'm glad other people feel as I did when I heard that speech. I felt it was highly inappropriate and disrespectful. It'd even irritate me if FIRST was only a United States competition. I simply can not put up with this brand of supreme arrogance and cockiness that has unfortunately been with this country since the late 1800's.

In the United States I've grown so tired of the idea that being proud to be an American means you have to criticize all other nations and say that the United States is the greatest country ever. What gives you the right to say that? Oh, you were born here and have (most of the people saying crap like this) never experienced much if anything at all of the world outside of the United States. If you only ate cabbage your entire life and only knew about cabbage, besides always smelling bad, you would be ignorant of all other foods. When you had the opportunity to embrace the variety of nourishment available to us, you would rather push them away and spit on them. It's the government's job to keep people ignorant and patriotic and to let them believe everything they say. He happens to be an employee of the government. Guess what his job is?

It's going to be our own undoing one of these days.

PS: Please do not get the wrong message here. I am not attacking Americans, I'm attacking arrogance usually spawned by ignorance. Most of the last argument would not apply to him since he was born in Cuba and lived in Mexico, but it was mainly me venting about people who HAVEN'T experienced other nations yet try to bash them and throw the United States in their faces.

[BuddyB309]

If you think the state of commerce speech was bad you should have heard the speech given from the guy at st. Louis. "America is the best and we are working to keep it the best! We must keep the Chinese and Asians at bay! They are stealing all of our workers....blah blah blah"

That speech made me sick to my stomach. Its so sad, the United states of America was created so people could be equal and now I think we seemed to have lost that vision.

I wondering what Dean thought of his speech. I got the impression that Dean did not think that highly of it. does anyone know?

[ScoutingNerd175]

Not only are there Israeli teams, Canadian teams, British teams, and Brazilian teams involved in FRC, there are also the 20+ countries represented in FLL. We have Canadian World Champions this year and have had Canadian and Brazilian Regional Chairman's Award Winners.

I for one believe that FIRST should be moving toward being a more multi-national organization. Yes, this event is in the US. This was represented by the fact that we were only able to hear the US National Anthem (a decision a fully support because it would have taken forever to hear all the other countries') However I do think that speeches at World Championships shouldn't be so Nationalistic. Yes, I know that he is the Secretary of Commerce, but I doubt I would have enjoyed hearing so much of it if I were a visitor to another country.

[deficite]

lol, yeah we were all talking about that St. Louis speech on the way back home. We were doing overexaggerated impressions of him. It was really fun

It's kind of frustrating seeing these types of people being put up on a pedestal when they are the types of people that cause the bottlenecks we experience in technology. Latin is used in science so everyone can communicate, but yet we can't bring ourselves to actually do it sometimes.

[JoelP]

Personally when he made the comment on how America won't let Indians keep taking their jobs and FIRST is helping Americans make sure of that, I was slightly offended being Indian myself. However, I can see that from his position that he would or had to take that stance. But, what I really didnt appreciate was when I commented that what the Secretary said wasn't very politically correct to my teammates, the guy in sitting in front of me turns around and says "I work with alot of Indians, they're great, but we're still better." I would expect that kind of statement from a student but this was from an mentor or chaperone. This isn't the kind of attitude we want to promote in FIRST.

[Pavan Dave]

I noticed most of our speakers did that too, and I think it was disrespectful expecially when they talked about America being the Greatest Country in the world infront of forenign people and all kinds of stuff. I hope the countries were not offended and I hope our speakers next year watch what they say next year.

Also I agree with the person above me. I myself am Indian and I heard someone on the team infront of us look over at me as soon as they said that. Just because there are Indian Engineers doesnt mean they dont work as hard as others and that they didn't earn their spots and jobs and that statement offended me a little. I think that that attitude is unacceptable in FIRST.

Pavan

[santosh]

Originally Posted by JoelP

Personally when he made the comment on how America won't let Indians keep taking their jobs and FIRST is helping Americans make sure of that, I was slightly offended being Indian myself.

Hah, yeah me too. I kinda thought it funny when he said that though. Friends from other teasm where like, "Ha, you are stealing my jobs, wait crap, you were born here, ha we are both getting our jobs stolen." It was kinda funny, but then if you think about it, they aren't our jobs. If I am a company, I want the best workers for my company. If they so happen to not be in my country, so be it.

But yes, I felt pretty bad for the other teams when he was talking about that.

[IrishPirate]

I was with Llama at the St Louis Regional for the "keep the Chinese and the Indians at bay" incident. (Note: Chinese and Indians not China and India) I don't think that this is a political issue because very one I talked to on my team was offended; mentors, students and parents, from all over the political spectrum. Once back home the incident would come up occasionally in conversation but most of us just felt that it was one persons misinterpretation of what FIRST is about.

Once we heard similar remarks two days in a row at nationals in front of our foreign guests we were again shocked at this misinterpretation (in our eyes) of what FIRST means.

I'm not offended by politicians being patriotic, what is offensive is the idea that FIRST is about beating others rather than improving ourselves.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by IrishPirate

I was with Llama at the St Louis Regional for the "keep the Chinese and the Indians at bay" incident. (Note: Chinese and Indians not China and India) I don't think that this is a political issue because very one I talked to on my team was offended; mentors, students and parents, from all over the political spectrum. Once back home the incident would come up occasionally in conversation but most of us just felt that it was one persons misinterpretation of what FIRST is about.

Once we heard similar remarks two days in a row at nationals in front of our foreign guests we were again shocked at this misinterpretation (in our eyes) of what FIRST means.

I'm not offended by politicians being patriotic, what is offensive is the idea that FIRST is about beating others rather than improving ourselves.

What may be coming from this discussion is the reason behind the homework assignment - to teach and to educate. FIRST isn't a given. It is a process of learning and understanding through experience - then sharing that with the school districts, the media, the leadership through communication and commitment.

[anna~marie]

You know I'm glad that I am not the only one who was a little concerned about that. I have no issues with patriotism and cooperation with the government, and what not, but frankly I thought it was rude to talk about how America is the top and best...etc, even if it is just a person's opinion
If I was from another country I might be a little annoyed

[Pat Fairbank]

I was a bit miffed upon hearing these comments, but in my experience Canadians are pretty thick-skinned, and I'm no exception. I realize that what was said doesn't in any way reflect the general opinion of Americans, and that's good enough for me to not feel insulted.

Besides, I think it was demonstrated this past Championship that Canadians know a thing or two about science and technology.