Saving Seats

[Karthik]

If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't this type of pre-assigned seating used at the 2004 BAE regional? I was there with a small group, doing some advanced scouting, perhaps someone who attended with a team could fill us in on the details and let us know how this method faired.

Originally Posted by David Brinza

This is a becoming a situation that FIRST must address. A few years ago, some members of Team 980 had a similar conflict with a team in the stands over saved seats. Our team wasn't very large, yet ended up scattered in the stands because we didn't save a block of seats for our members that were in the pits and on the drive team.

I've suggested in earlier posts and threads that FIRST assign block seating to teams prior to the event based on information provided at time of registration (i.e. number of team members and supporters anticipated at the event). The location of the seats for the teams can be done a number of ways, ranging from random draw, to team seniority, to number of regional awards won. This may be difficult to accomplish logistically, but if this sort of behavior continues and escalates, someone is likely to cross the line and real problems will arise.

Rather than bicker, can we try to offer a reasonable solution to FIRST?

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Karthik

If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't this type of pre-assigned seating used at the 2004 BAE regional? I was there with a small group, doing some advanced scouting, perhaps someone who attended with a team could fill us in on the details and let us know how this method faired.

We were there, and seating was definitely not assigned to the team as a whole in 2004, 2005 or 2006. Always at BAE however, the best seats (the ones looking across the field), are reserved for teams whose robot is on the playing field (never been to another event, so I don't know if that's normal or not).

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

Our team spirit is all we have. Our robot is awful this year and is usualy isn't that good any other year. We won Buckeye this year all case we were matched with 272 and 494. We went 1-6-0 at Atlanta. What would you do if you were loseing? I'd get myself up, shout as lond as I could and let people know that this is the robot that my team has built and we are proud of it. I wouldn't expect anyone to scout us, we are rarely noticed anyway. All we have been known for is cheering. So thats what me and my team are going to do. We are going to get up for our robot. And if we are in your way, thats great. You can read the back of our shirts and see who we are.

We at least have a policy of scouting every single team, every single match. I'm pretty sure other teams have a similar policy. By not sitting DURING the match, you could have shot yourselves in both feet. Take an example from 1108 and 75. They stood during the team announcements, and sat as soon as the countdown started. And do you really want people knowing who you are by having you stand up the whole match and block their view of the field? You can ruin things for everybody behind you by standing (you weren't even cheering while standing, which I find almost completely inexplicable, if you want a Team Spirit award, and which could excuse your standing ALL MATCH).
There is a thread (I believe it is called "Standing, cheering, and required team actions") on this subject, started last year. Read it. Most people on CD seem to agree with me: sit down during the matches, stand any other time you please, make as much noise as you want any time.

[jacob07]

Saving seats does make it hard for the fans and the teams of FIRST enjoy watching the game. I know my team came up to the stands and only took one row and 95% of the time people were sitting in the seats (scouting). It makes it really hard to look through someone. I know that most teams are large teams but they should realize that the smaller teams dont think its fair when 80 people jump up and leave and all come back and people are sitting in the seats the left and expect them to get up. The should learn the following statement: <B> MOVE YOUR FEET LOSE YOUR SEAT</B>

[FourPenguins]

Originally Posted by ScoutingNerd175

When I am trying to scout a team but I can't see them because the people in front of me are standing, I get annoyed. However, when we were able to stand during our matches at Chesapeake, we were a lot more happy and spirited... I understand the desire of any strong scouting program to get data on each match, but I also understand the desire of a spirited team to stand and cheer, even for a losing robot. To say that a team won't get scouted because they have spirit seems sort of like a punishment for a problem they did not create.

As far as awards go; there is no good reason for people to not stand for every award. What is it you are trying to see while people are applauding for the award winner? More importantly, why aren't you standing too? These people have a great accomplishment. They definitely deserve the recognition of the entire FIRST Community for that. A standing ovation is a long excepted tradition for recognition of something great. A woman once asked me to sit down during the curtain call for a truly wonderful show. I asked her to please stand up and give the cast the ovation they deserved. There is no reason not to stand during applause, there isn't anything else to see until after the applause dies down.

I agree totally with you.
I'm on Team 11. Yes we stand, yes we stand the entire match, and I think that 25 is talking about us in particular.
For starters, we don't just stand to win an award. We don't win team spirit awards. We stand to support our drivers and our robot. I can say from personal experience that the greater the enthusiasm in the stands, the better the drivers feel and perform.
At the same time, we have a scout team. We pride ourselves on our scouts, and they are some of the best in FIRST. When the team in front of them stands, they stand too. They get their data, the team in front gets to show support for their team. Everyone's happy. As a scout myself, I think it's nice to be able to stand every once in a while.

As for standing for awards, this is exactly the point. This team worked hard to win the award. Maybe our standing will encourage you to do the same as a show of respect for their effort.

As for a special "scout section," it would be great if they can make it work...

[KTorak]

Originally Posted by 11Ed71

For starters, we don't just stand for an award. We don't win team spirit awards. We stand to support our drivers and our robot. I can say from personal experience that the greater the enthusiasm in the stands, the better the drivers feel and perform.

As a driver, I totally agree. You become more motivated and confident with the more people you hear cheering on you and your partners during a match. It makes the experience even more thrilling to be a apart of.

However, let's not let this become a personal attack against any teams/students/members of CD/etc. If you had a problem with any team, you should have spoken with them when it happened. If you feel it was that big of a situation, I'd suggest PMing those involved or emailing them with your concern.

[ICE MAN]

Originally Posted by DeepWater

On this note I would like to draw attention to the utter ciaos that FIRST caused while, in my opinion, being very un-GP themselves by attempting to "save seats" before the finals and award ceremony in the section directly in front of the awards platform. Our team did not go to the Championship but myself and 2 other mentors traveled to Atlanta just to watch and checkout what was going on in the pits. Just before lunch on Saturday we grabbed 3 seats on the very top row of the lower section just in front of the awards platform halfway between the Galileo and Einstein fields. After lunch "officials" (some looked like FIRST and/or arena people and later some were even GA State Police) cleared the stands in that section 3 SEPARATE TIMES of all teams in front of us. They were (I think) trying to save seats for the teams that were going to make it into the finals on Einstein or something but they just had absolutely no control of the situation. They never "roped off" the area with yellow tape to let people know not to sit there so people would come and sit and fill-up the section and then the "officials" would go through row by row telling everyone to get up and sit somewhere else. They did this 3 separate times! Teams would have been sitting there for quite a while and then have to move. I can specifically remember all of 340 and 1880 among the dozens of teams sitting in front of us that were forced to loose their seats. When the awards ceremony started the whole section was empty and then it was basically just a free for all again. It looked kind of stupid when Woodie started the ceremony and the whole section in front of him was empty. The whole section of the "good seats" then only partially filled throughout the ceremony and final rounds. I thought this was totally unfair to the teams that were in the seats who were told they had to leave for no real reason just so that other teams (who wound up being just anyone not just the Einstein teams) only partially filled the section. If FIRST would practice what they preach then this kind of ciaos wouldn't have happened. The seats should have been first come first served rather than first come first removed, second come second removed, third come third removed, fourth come oh well go ahead and sit because everything has started and we have this big hole we need to fill because it looks bad in the photos and cameras to have a bunch of empty seats in front of the awards platform. It sort of ruined the whole photo op for endless sea for multicolored team uniforms. Since the 3 of us were sitting on the very top row on the walking level we watched this whole debacle unfold over and over in front of us. I don't know who's idea it was to "try" to save that whole section but it didn't work out so well.

I hate to interject here, but the seats that you refer to in front of the Einstein Field and the award ceremony were reserved for all of the judges, officials, and volunteers who made Nationals run. So I think it is fair for FIRST to section off some of the best seats in the house for those who help the event run. This in my opinion is a very GP move by FIRST.
-Cory

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by EricH

We at least have a policy of scouting every single team, every single match. I'm pretty sure other teams have a similar policy. By not sitting DURING the match, you could have shot yourselves in both feet. Take an example from 1108 and 75. They stood during the team announcements, and sat as soon as the countdown started. And do you really want people knowing who you are by having you stand up the whole match and block their view of the field? You can ruin things for everybody behind you by standing (you weren't even cheering while standing, which I find almost completely inexplicable, if you want a Team Spirit award, and which could excuse your standing ALL MATCH).
There is a thread (I believe it is called "Standing, cheering, and required team actions") on this subject, started last year. Read it. Most people on CD seem to agree with me: sit down during the matches, stand any other time you please, make as much noise as you want any time.

I wish you knew my team.

Back on topic shall we? Saveing seats? Ok. I agree that saveing seats isn't the best thing to do. It's wrong but people still do it. There are sometimes problems and there are sometimes not. I will repeat what others have said: If you want it to be inforced, tell FIRST. If no one tells FIRST than there isn't a problem, right? If you want to see a change, everyone on this thread construct a letter and email it to FIRST, to Dean, to whoever needs to see it. Tell them how you feel about it, and tell them you want it enforced. Here I'll start it for you!

FIRST/Important person:

Members of Team 47's Forum comminity have expressed their opinion about enforceing the "no saveing seats" rule. It has been ignored my some teams and has been a problem in some occations. We ask that you consider enforceing the rule, or to make us all aware of the reason why the rule can not be enforced.


You all can fill in the rest. I'm not going to send it because I have never seen a problem with it. If you want to make a change, be the change.

[ChuckDickerson]

Originally Posted by ICE MAN

I hate to interject here, but the seats that you refer to in front of the Einstein Field and the award ceremony were reserved for all of the judges, officials, and volunteers who made Nationals run. So I think it is fair for FIRST to section off some of the best seats in the house for those who help the event run. This in my opinion is a very GP move by FIRST.
-Cory

Cory, I totally agree that it would be GREAT if FIRST reserved those seats for the judges, volunteers, and other officials, however, if that was the plan it was just poorly executed. We were sitting there from about 11:30 until after everything was over and I never heard any announcement to that effect. All they would have to do is rope the whole section off with yellow tape at lunch and put up a few signs stating "This section is reserved for VIPs" and FIRST could have avoided a lot of ciaos. There would have been no need to call in the Police. The only people sitting in that section when the awards ceremony started were the judges sitting in the first few rows. They were obviously the only ones clued into the reserved seating section.

[katiyeh07]

Originally Posted by iCurtis

We were there, and seating was definitely not assigned to the team as a whole in 2004, 2005 or 2006. Always at BAE however, the best seats (the ones looking across the field), are reserved for teams whose robot is on the playing field (never been to another event, so I don't know if that's normal or not).

In the 9 years I've been with FIRST, seats have always been on a first come, first serve basis. At BAE, at the UTC regional, at the NJ regional, at the Chesapeake regional, and at the championships. You may be in a section one day, but chances are, you won't be there the next day if you don't get to them early enough. There's always been debates about "You stole our seats, we were here yesterday." Seats are seats, we're all watching the same thing.

[J Flex 188]

First off, please let me sincerely apologize to Mr. Brooks. It was by no means my intent to antagonize or to create a conflict, just as it was in the original situation addressed. I have a deep appreciation for all mentors, as witnessed many times over by my testaments to those mentors on my team (including two Regional WFA's) and for all those who dedicate their time to mentoring and helping students. I never meant for the comment to be taken personally. It was as Karthik said directed in large part out of frustration to certain individuals who judge actions and immediately attach a stigma to them because of the fact of my age or my teammates ages.

You are quite correct in assuming that perception is what comes out first, and just as you said, perception is very important, but I will not change my character to suit how other people perceive me. I have always done my best to come off as a responsible and mature individual, only heightened by my involvement in FIRST. However, if certain individuals choose to place me as another branded teenage hooligan, I will not step down and accept what they say as rule or absolute fact. I think it would all be better if everyone decided to treat individuals with equal respect if they are meeting them for the first time. I do not treat a student I meet for the first time any different than I would imagine that I would treat Dean Kamen. I may have more admiration for one over another, but I do not let what I perceive to be their background may or may not be influence me.


With that being said, I have steered this thread away from its original intent. Apologies all around, I wanted to make my position known. Best of luck to you and your team in the future.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Bill Moore

There is no reason for teams to turn others away from seats that are not actively being used. It is also a sign of mutual respect from the other teams to open up those seats again when the pit crew returns to watch a match. This isn't something that FIRST can legislate, it's something we need to learn within our teams.

I believe that it would be more of a sign of mutual respect for all teams to follow the rule that says they cannot save seats. If there's no one in the seat, it should be open to anyone.

[Ken Loyd]

I am not sure if this idea has been tried before....well here goes.

What if FIRST were to put into the manual a statement about being graciously professional and not saving seats. Something along the line, "Thank you for being graciously professional and not saving seats. Please let everyone enjoy the event."

Teams could then copy the statement onto index cards/business cards which they could use to avoid confrontations at competitions. If a problem arises, show the card rather than anger.

Ken

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by Ken Loyd

I am not sure if this idea has been tried before....well here goes.

What if FIRST were to put into the manual a statement about being graciously professional and not saving seats. Something along the line, "Thank you for being graciously professional and not saving seats. Please let everyone enjoy the event."

Teams could then copy the statement onto index cards/business cards which they could use to avoid confrontations at competitions. If a problem arises, show the card rather than anger.

Ken

I like the Idea and I think it WILL Work. and most importantly it will not lead to any conflicts and for most teams they strive for gracious professionalism and have a good rep and dont want a simple stupid seat to ruin all of that, that that team has been banking every year.

Pavan