I feel this needs to be said...(Grades & FIRST Dedication)

[GeorgeTheEng]

School, then FIRST. Not the other way around.

I totally agree with this statement. I, along with the teachers on my team, make that point at least 1 or twice at parent meetings in the beginning of the year. We usually have at least 1 slow week as our school has finals for single semester classes during the build season.

I've told my kids that Classes need to come first and before we go on trips the kids have to get academic releases from thier teachers. I've also told them that if they have problems, esp in Math and Science classes, that the mentors will help them out if they ask.

Besides, every class provides a basis of knowledge for FIRST activities. Name any class and I bet in 80-90% of the cases I can tie the skills there to something that can/should/is done during a FIRST season.

Of course, this all goes only for the students... Mentors are expected to know better... If they decide to let school (or work) lapse, they should understand the consequences as they are adults.

School first, FIRST second...

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Our team has a grade requirement policy. Simply put... you MUST maintain a C or higher in every class or you are on academic probation... no robotics until the grades are up. If you fail a class for a quarter or semester, you're off the team for that season. This is Sherrard's eligibility requirements and the team has adopted them. So I hope not to see any of team 648's members boasting about dropping grades due to FIRST dedication.

[themagic8ball]

Our school has the same policy ^. Our main programmer was not able to attend Nationals for this reason and we found it very hard without him.

[coastertux]

I agree with all of you who say school is before robots. My team stresses this and we make sure the students know that if they have to miss a meeting to do school work, they should do so. I actually find that I do better during the build season because I am forced to manage my time in a more efficient manner. My school also requires an academic release from teachers before students can miss school for a "field trip."

[Katie Reynolds]

On 857, the grade requirement is a C average AND no F's. Everyone's grades are checked the week before we travel.

[Chaos204]

I am not so sure bragging is the right word to describe what we do when we talk about falling grades during season, its more like reminiscing. When the team and i talk about grades we laugh about the change in grades because it is a relatively small change and its understandable. there is a lot of brainpower being used during the build season so it is normal.

The problem is when the grade change is more than a few points that is when there needs to be a change in priorities.

[travis48elite]

I would also have to agree with this, during this current season we had to keep students from attending the regionals. A few dislike the teachers from doing this but it is our team policy if they want to travel. Also the teachers on our team want the students to succeed after FIRST, especially with our team leader. Although it hurts to see some of my friends on the team put in around +100 hours into helping with the robot and not travel. But in the long run it is for their own good!

[Dan Petrovic]

166 says FIRST doesn't come first. School does.

I know... it's a nasty pun, but it gets the message through.

I'm guilty of having grades drop during build season, but I easily bring it back up afterwards. This year was horrible. My english teacher could not have picked a worse time to assign a Research Paper...

[Jherbie53]

Your school work comes first, even if your in college. I think that most teams would have a policy that you need to be passing your classes in order to go. We have something like that, I'm not completely sure about the final answer on it. If your in college and mentoring, like me, your school work comes first. I did schedule my classes around the season, knowing when we worked late and when we didn't, but I did get my work done.

If anyones grades start to drop, because of the build season or anytime during the year, the team should help them bring their grades up. We will help any of our team members when they need it.

Anyhoo, my final thoughts are, that if you are failing a class or your grades are going down, then you need to do something about it. FIRST is not a class that the schools offer, its a extra event thats designed to give the students a look at other careers. To quote just about everybody, "School first, FIRST second."

[Lea103]

team 103 also emphasizes the need for school to come first. there is a minimum gpa to join the team and the mentors (who are teachers at the school) try to make sure that all members make at least honor role every semester.

[Steve S.]

our team doesnt have a grade req. Thankfully. If we did we'd lose prolly half our team (yeah thats bad)....not me

Now, i dont see where we need a minimum gpa to join a team, thats not right, but having a min. gpa to go to competition is fine, all teams should have that....

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Our team has no grade policy.
100% of our robot is built by students and parents.
100% of our past and present graduates have gone on to higher education.

Yes, grades are important. Are they the end all, be all to who you are as a person: NO!

I believe this topic raises a larger issue than what is currently at hand. Which is more important: The school or the student?

The goal of public education (I am not familiar with the inner workings of private institutions, so I cannot speak my opinions of them) is to provide each and every student with the skills and knowledge they need to live life to the fullest. Elementary education is rather straightforward, and provides students with the foundation they need to learn at a higher level. As schooling continues to the secondary level, the mission and outcome begins to become blurred. Ask any high school student "What is the point of school?" and you will receive a few different answers. Of these answers, most will hold the general idea of "To learn."

This is the misdirection that plagues a majority of high school and college students. Students spend a majority of their adolescent life in school with no real goal beside "to get into a good college". Yes, this is a good goal to have, but where is the significance in this? College is not for everyone, and students need to be given the opportunity to find themselves before dedicating a large amount of time and money to this cause. FIRST is a tool students can use to in self-discovery in a world where society's aspirations are based around the near-impossible-to-achieve dreams of professional sports and stardom (Ahh, but that is for another discussion!)

So, where does your performance in high school factor in? The answer to that question is lodged in your perspective on education, and the point of its existence. While some may not agree with me, (based on opinions, fact, or blatant ignorance) the point of school is not to learn, but to learn how to learn. Your grades in school have close to no real meaning. They are simply a gauge in the effort to distinguish those who are able to comprehend the material from those who may need more help. Achieving high marks may mean you are truly comprehend the subject, but more often than not it simply shows that student is capable of memorizing some pages out of a book. This is a huge flaw in the modern education system, and something I hope will be addressed.

In a normal classroom environment, teachers give lessons over a set period of time to be followed with an examination. The goal for students is to receive a perfect score on this examination. This might possibly be the worst thing possible for the students. It becomes easy and practically accepted to have no real knowledge of the 'guts' of the subject, but simply to just know 'the right answer'. This fact has created millions of teenage zombies in America, who simply sit through the day, take word-for-word notes, memorize them, and regurgitate their memories on the test. All the while, they have no real idea of what they are doing.

Is this happening everywhere? No, not really. The AP environment solves most of the problems I have stated. The AP examination looks for overall understanding of the subject matter, and does not ask for perfection. 75% right on the AP exam will score you the highest marks possible. I wholeheartedly agree with this method, and hope it expands to encompass all classroom environments, not just high level.

Back to the subject at hand: Which is more important: The school or the student?

Without either, both are lost. If one fails, so does the other. In any one school there may be thousands of students. For the sake of the school's survival, it is much easier to force the students to conform than the school to reform. The educational ideals of public education and of (what has become of) FIRST are based on different foundations, which makes hard for many students to survive in both worlds. While a student in a school is just a number, FIRST provides an experience which would otherwise be unattainable at this time in someone's life. Please don't get me wrong, teachers and school faculty care about their students. Of course they do, or they wouldn't be there. But, in the end the experience you walk away with from high school alone does not really enrich your life.

I'm sorry Matt, but I cannot support your plea. I repeat, grades ARE important, but students need to realize the importance of them in THEIR life. Sure, it would be nice if everyone had 4.0 GPA's and went to Ivy League schools... but everyone is not the same, and each person needs to realize his/her potential and what they need to do to achieve greatness.

So, please do whatever it takes to make the most out of your high school years. Don't waste the best years of your life with your face in a book. For the team leaders reading this, realize the experience your students are getting from this program WILL change their lives. Please, do not discount this fact and give every student the chance they deserve.

[arabsponsor]

Team 538 has the "C" or better in every class to be able to travel. We had a number that couldn't travel to Nationals (because they chose not to make up work they missed when we went to regionals). As a teacher sponsor I check each members grades at least once a week to stay on top of it. Some of the members were shocked when they couldn't travel but next year I bet they will make sure to do all make-up work.

[coreyk]

Originally Posted by Lea103

team 103 also emphasizes the need for school to come first. there is a minimum gpa to join the team and the mentors (who are teachers at the school) try to make sure that all members make at least honor role every semester.

Cybersonics (103) requires every student on the team to maintain Honor Status throughout the year. In order to join the team, students are interviewed by team officers and mentors after a submission of there current GPA (at least 3.0), application, and letter of recommendation. All report cards are reviewed by team advisor's, who are teachers at the school when handed out. Anyone that is unable to maintain their grades while participating in FIRST will forfeit their attendance at competitions and/or other team activities.

Corey

[Mike D'Auria]

That is a good point about failing classes for FIRST. Our team has a minimum grade average in order to stay on. Not very high to exclude some kids but high enough that you have to go to class and do well. No failing grades either. It's very fair and keeps the students from cutting and going straight into robotics for the entire day.