Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

[RoboMadi]

Interesting discussion on a very different topic. It actually varies from person to person or situation to situation. As far as my own opinion goes, i think its a good thing to mentor teams. Especially when your own success is through that team. In case of Team 612, we had no college mentors until this year. Chris Thai came back to help us out because he saw the lack of mentor ship in our team (we have only 2 mentors), and also he was inspired how FIRST has changed his life and can change the life of other people.

And now moving on, as it changed my life (scholarships, cool job and recognition), I'll definitely come back to help out my team. But it is true that my existence as a Student at an University counts first then mentoring a FIRST team.
As people have said before, make your own decision; it only requires a common sense.

[Chris Fultz]

D.J. > You started a great thread here, and I think your point was for college students to make a careful decision, and not to debate the merits of the value of a college student as a mentor.

For your point, I think you are right on. As a college student, you need to first be a college student. You are there to learn, to grow, to mature. The college expereince is a unique one and won't be like any other time in your life.

If you can maintain your grades and sanity and enjoy some of the college life, AND be a mentor, by all means go for it. if you can't, maybe volunteering for a kick-off event, or at a Regional or the Championship is a better option. OR, maybe just cheering while watching webcasts is the best choice.

As a potential employer for some of you, I can tell you that the first screen you have to pass just to get an interview is GPA. If the grades aren't there, regardless of why not, you probably won't get an interview slot at many companies. Fair? Maybe, Maybe not, but there as to be some type of a screening process up front. After top grades, then you have to get through the interview process, then, the extra activities you were a part of will be looked at.

You won't get hired because you were a FIRST mentor but had terrible grades and did not learn anything, but you might get hired if you have great academic performance, a good interview, and some service / volunteer activities while you were in school.

And at the end of the day, I would hope at least part of the reason you are in college is to be abe to get a great job when you finish.

[KenWittlief]

I get the sense that some college students feel they owe something to their HS FIRST team, or to FIRST in general, and that they have to give something back.

So much energy and life-force has been focused on giving you the opportunity to attend college. I cannot over emphasize giving you. You cannot possibly know the sacrifices that people make to support our university system, the personal sacrifices your parents and loved-ones make, and even the people who served as mentors to inspire you to go to college.

This is the one time in your life to put your own interests first, to be a little self-ish, and to get everything you can out of those 4 or 5 years.

College is all about you! You should not feel guilty about that, because in the big picture what is best for you now is best for society in the long run. If you co-op with an important company and end up working for them, if you start your own business while you are in school, if you do very well and are sponsored by a professor to stay on and get your masters or doctorate degree - the more energy you focus on your own career in college the better you will do in the end.

And then when you want to give something back to FIRST, or to your community, or to humanity in general, the more you have achieved the more you will have to give back.

As others have said, there are many FIRST related things you can volunteer for while you are in college, helping out with regionals, tasks that will only take a few days of your time, without committing yourself to 20 hours a week for 8 weeks as a team mentor.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

If you do decide to be a mentor while you are in college then accept the fact that you will not play a key role on the team. You are no longer a HS student, and you are not yet an engineer.

I think the most important sentence in this paragraph is not the first, but the second. You don't know what your role will be - that will depend on the organization of the team you join.

However, it cannot be stated too emphatically: YOU ARE NO LONGER A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT. You cannot expect to be just another one of the kids. For one thing, you are probably an adult (at least you're over 18, maturity aside) and the kids are not. That alone creates a legal difference in your status - remember that in your relationships and interactions with teams.

If it's your former team that you're considering mentoring - reconsider it very intently. Those kids that are juniors and your friends this year are supposed to be the team leaders next year. If you come back and your mere presence being there usurps that role from them, you will have failed as a mentor. A person who shows up twice during the build season, and then accompanies the team to a competition, isn't a mentor - he's an alumnus. Figure out what your role should and will be before committing - talk it over with the coaches.

Don't offer to mentor just because "you can't let it go". There are many great experiences we have in life that cannot be recreated, no matter how hard we try. We have to accept that we can't go back, we can never relive the wonderful moments we have had. We can make great new memories - just make sure you're getting into mentoring for that reason, not to try to extend your current experiences.

The suggestion to volunteer at an event is wonderful. It will be a short-term high-time commitment, rather than a long-term high-time commitment. Many college students can arrange their schedules for a weekend without undue effects on their grades - as long as you don't skip exams or other important class sessions!

Whatever you decide to do, make sure it will be positive, both for you personally and for the team. Don't let your grades suffer because of it - if you have to restrict your participation to once or twice a week, so be it, I'm sure the team will accept your limited role if they are aware of it from the beginning.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by GaryV1188

The suggestion to volunteer at an event is wonderful. It will be a short-term high-time commitment, rather than a long-term high-time commitment. Many college students can arrange their schedules for a weekend without undue effects on their grades - as long as you don't skip exams or other important class sessions!

Second that: FIRST team alumni (IMO) make the best volunteers. If you'll be a college student in the same geographic region as your high-school FIRST team, it is likely that you've already met someone who can help you get started as a volunteer, maybe a mentor on your team or another team, or a regional committee member.

Team experience can make it easier to understand how your volunteer role fits into the overall success of a FIRST event. You may also have some detailed knowledge such as the rules, the kit of parts, event logistics, or a good network of people you've met at previous events that will make you especially useful as a volunteer.

[wendymom]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

D.J. > You started a great thread here, and I think your point was for college students to make a careful decision, and not to debate the merits of the value of a college student as a mentor.

For your point, I think you are right on. As a college student, you need to first be a college student. You are there to learn, to grow, to mature. The college expereince is a unique one and won't be like any other time in your life.

If you can maintain your grades and sanity and enjoy some of the college life, AND be a mentor, by all means go for it. if you can't, maybe volunteering for a kick-off event, or at a Regional or the Championship is a better option. OR, maybe just cheering while watching webcasts is the best choice.

As a potential employer for some of you, I can tell you that the first screen you have to pass just to get an interview is GPA. If the grades aren't there, regardless of why not, you probably won't get an interview slot at many companies. Fair? Maybe, Maybe not, but there as to be some type of a screening process up front. After top grades, then you have to get through the interview process, then, the extra activities you were a part of will be looked at.

You won't get hired because you were a FIRST mentor but had terrible grades and did not learn anything, but you might get hired if you have great academic performance, a good interview, and some service / volunteer activities while you were in school.

And at the end of the day, I would hope at least part of the reason you are in college is to be abe to get a great job when you finish.

I have to disagree with this statement. All 4 of the college mentors on our team 1902 (whom we would not exsist without) were offered jobs at the FLA regional just on the basis of what they had helped accomplish.

I know when my "college boys" signed on they had no intention of being quite so involved. We really didnt have any other "professionals" But when the team builds in your garage what choice do you have (THANKS DAN)

But we as a team made the effort to make sure that we respected the need for the mentors to study. In fact there were nights that as team mom I sent one or two of them home to make sure projects were done. They also set the standard for the high schoolers as to how to manage robotics and studies ( and a little bit of social life as well)

You do need to set your own limits and no one knows that better than you. But I love my college guys and I am so glad they helped build the most fun rookie team ever

OINK OINK BOOM

[Summmergrl2298]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

If you have a FIRST team with only college students for mentors that is not the ideal situation. Its not what FIRST was intended to be, and its not in the best interests for the college student.

I tend to agree with you...I've been debating whether or not to try and start a team myself, but then as I read all these posts I realize that it may be a better idea to start working with a team rather than begin a new one. A team with only college mentors may not be a good idea because you're balancing what is almost two full time jobs. Starting a new team IS like a fulltime job (so is college)...even during build season it becomes veryyyyyy strenuous. But you guys know that already

[Kevin Kolodziej]

This is a great thread and all students that are considering continuing their involvement with FIRST while in college should take a look at it - but they need to evaluate themselves to know for sure what they can do. Some can handle it, some cannot. When I look back at the things I have done with FIRST while in college, its a hard list for me to believe. The fact that I have kept up a 3.5+ GPA is even more of a miracle. I have had a blast doing it, but if I knew what all I would be doing before I did it, I cannot say for sure that I would have done it.

Time management is key. If you are going to be an integral part of a team, you need to make sure that your schedule can handle it. Block off time for everything EXCEPT robots and other extracurricular activities first, and then see what you have time for. I have no problem admitting that my TV time currently consists of one hour a day as I go to bed and no video games anymore. My Chiefdelphi time is significantly reduced too

One thing is for sure though - if I had NOT done what I have done while in college, the last 4 years would have been VERY boring. Getting a good education is great...its extremely important...but I think most businesses look for what else you have done. Most of the businesses that MSOE students apply at do not even look at grades. I cannot guess how common that is, however.

One final thing: don't be afraid to try it and fail.
"Success often comes from taking a misstep in the right direction." - Anonymous

Kev

[travis48elite]

This is my finial year on my team as a student and I understand what you are all saying. That is why I am going to go through my first semester without helping my team that much. That way I can be confident by the end of that semester if I then choose to help out my team. Besides I think my team will understand if I choose to not really help them out that much. And I am sure everyone else's team will understand that also coming from their team members. Because they will understand you if you education is really keeping you away from helping the team. But I do not think they will understand if you start mentoring them, putting killer hours in on your part and you end up taking summer classes. No, that in my opinion is not the way to go. Me I think I will just help out my team whenever I feel comfortable enough to the point my grades will not suffer.

[josh s]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

For me, mentoring and my first year of college went great. I found the college clubs kind of dumb and thought FIRST was way better so I stuck with it and it was fun. And I didn't have any problem keeping my GPA high enough to get into an honor society. For my second year of college (this year) FIRST was a little more demanding and my school slid a little bit (I'll have to repeat diff eq.) but I believe I am still elegible for another (junior level) honor society. To me, school is kind of boring so sticking with FIRST was a good way to keep me from being bored. I think I'll stick with FIRST, however my involvment may become more limited (and it somewhat has already).

Recently, I have taken on the role of Construction Co-Chair and Webmaster for the Cal Poly Pomona Rose Float project so I'm quite busy in that.

For me, I can't spend my life listening to professors babble through equations full of greek letters then go home and struggle through books full of stuff that the professor was too lazy to mention. I can take it but I can't drown myself in it. There's got to be more for me. I've got to just go out and build something every once in a while. That's why I did and will continue to stick with FIRST. It is a nice break from boredom.

I will say this though: I have yet to find any extracurricular as good as or better than FIRST.

I have to agree with you. Sometimes you need to get away from the stress of school and just take a break so you don't end up going nuts.

[TubaMorg]

This is a pretty interesting thread and brings up the generations old dilemma a lot of post-High School people suffer through. The I'm-18-but-I-am-still-a-kid transition period. I remember around this time in my life suffering through the same things. It is really difficult to switch from being part of the gang to being an outsider. Even worse, as a Senior everyone is telling you how great you are, giving you scholarships, giving you awards, making you out to be some sort of super hero. Then you graduate. You move into the next phase of your life, whether it be college, military, or whatever and you find out not many people are all the impressed with you any more. It is natural to return back to the scene of glory and try to recapture the magic. But it's never the same, it's never as great as you remember. The key is to recognize this and figure out what your new role as a "grown up" is.

Reminds me of Bruce Springsteen's song 'Glory Days'

Changing sub-topic: This year we were fortunate to have several University of Houston engineering students help with our team. We are still feeling our way through this relationship, because it didn't quite work out to our satisfaction this year. They planned on coming only on Fridays and Saturdays, so as to minimize the impact on their studies, which is reasonable enough. However, they got their feelings hurt when design ideas that they had one week weren't implemented the following week. We tried to explain to them that during a frantic 6 week build period, a LOT of changes can take place over 7 days and that without continued involvement, their ideas might not make it.

So what I am going to try and do for next year is to meet with the Engineering department deans and see if the UH students could get some credit for participating in FIRST. One thing that sort of amazed me was that a lot of engineering students don't have the foggiest idea of how to build anything. FIRST mentoring is a fantastic opportunity to gain first (not a pun) hand experience on planning and building. PLUS if they are receiving college credit for their participation (sort of an independent study model), they can logically devote more time to a FIRST team without impacting their grades negatively.

Problems with the idea: Engineering schools usually have a pretty strict curriculum that needs to be followed to graduate in time (4 years). The rigidity of the curriculum may make implementing a credit course for FIRST mentoring difficult. Even if the engineering school administration seems amenable to the idea, it may take quite a bit of time before it becomes available to the students.

So, to you college mentors out there, if you could receive 1 or 2 credit hours for working with a FIRST team, wouldn't this help? It might be worth a try. Maybe if ONE engineering school out there were to allow it, it would be easier to convince other schools to follow suit.

[Mikell Taylor]

My mentors were from Ohio State, and they got credit. I'm not sure exactly how it worked, but if you contact their engineering department, I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you how it all fits together. They have VERY active FIRST mentorship with several teams and they're very successful.

My college just does it as a community service project -- the time commitment we can manage for that fits up rather well with the particular school we mentor.

[Stephen Kowski]

I can't help but agree with many of the points made in this thread about time management, grades, and staying in school. It is important, and in my first year in college while starting a new team at a new school (<2 yrs in existance) I did not do well I will admit (I failed a course, and got a D in my first two semesters). Would I have done the exact same thing knowing that my grades were poor and I put myself in a bad situation with my school and family? In a heartbeat. It was more than rewarding to see the student's lives I have had some kind of impact on and to pass on an opportunity that was afforded to me.

I guess my point is not to pat myself on the back here, but rather to share my experience of it looking bad for a long time. Now all that being said I don't agree that this is some kind of scary thing that all students cannot possibly handle. It is possible, I know because I know a lot of people that keep showing up every year (StudManDan, George1902, RogerR, etc etc) despite it being a juggling act. The key is that this is an exercise in balance and time management.

Anything is going to be too much if you overdo it and forget about the rest that is why this is such a balancing act and should be thought of as such. Are there people that go to college and overdo a co-op or internship opportunity? Yes. Are there people that go to college and overdo partying? You bet. Are there people that overdo and study too much and don't realize the college experience they are missing? ABSOLUTELY.

To get to the point grades are important, but they aren't the only thing in college and learning the skill in college of how to balance what is and isn't important in your life is an important one that will serve you throughout your life.

I don't like the thought that this is so insurmountable that you cannot in any terms pull off FIRST, a job, on campus student organization involvement, or something else. You can, it just takes a realization that it will not be easy. Being "selfish" is good in some respects, but sometimes through these kinds of threads students can become intimidated to get their feet wet in the FIRST college environment and end up doing nothing but paying lip service to FIRST.

Don't, I repeat, don't miss out on your college experience by sitting in your room and studying 24/7 because putting yourself in a bubble is not how the world works. It is OK to fail, it is OK to make mistakes, but just try to regulate it and not give up.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Summmergrl2298

A team with only college mentors may not be a good idea because you're balancing what is almost two full time jobs. Starting a new team IS like a fulltime job (so is college).

What about those of us post-college mentors? Isn't mentoring a team sort of like having two full-time jobs where my other full-time job is -- you know -- a full-time job?

(P.S. Having a full-time job is more time consuming than going to college. Trust me on this.)

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

I get the sense that some college students feel they owe something to their HS FIRST team, or to FIRST in general, and that they have to give something back.

I have to say that Ken nailed it for me here. My goal in starting 229 was to inspire just one student the way I had been inspired. As I said I got that and SOO much more...

There are definitely two sides to this coin. I like how DJ suggests taking a year off to figure things out. I dove headfirst into FIRST and not only was in FIRST but started a team my freshman year of college. I spent a TON of time over the summer planning it out, scrawling papers of ideas, typing up agendas, etc. I ran a pretty good preseason my freshman year, got everyone involved, we had a great time, and my GPA was a 3.5!! Not bad? I was also on the varsity ski team, and did i mention I only slept 3-4 hours a night? I was soon to find out this couldnt hold. My second semester, I lived and breathed FIRST. I scrambled to keep up with my studies, clawing every step of the way. The only thing that probably saved me was that finals were nearly three months after our last event. I got a 3.0 that semester. The next semester, Clarkson threw more at me, in the way of grades and the team. They werent happy with our performance the last year and got a bunch of MBA students to run the team... I had to do twice the work. That and my best friend having a baby nearly broke me... I ended up with a 2.7 GPA that semester. I nearly got kicked out of the honors program...

By then I started to realize my priorities, I had to let FIRST take a bit of a backseat (though I still mentored for the next two years) while I painfully clawed my way back up to a 3.25. I finally had to take my senior year off for fear of burnout and not being able to get all my coursework done, plus all the job interviews and everything else... so I chose to just volunteer. I ended up with a 3.3 and a very rewarding college experience.

That said, would I change anything? I dont think so. The struggles I went through made me who I am today. Made me able to keep up with 1511, taught me more than I could ever have learned about leadership, and even more about time management. I loved my college FIRST experience, and its probably why I had so many job offers (even more than any of the 4.0 students I knew), but it is NOT something to be taken lightly. It is NOT like your high school team, and it is NOT easy.

So with one side being to consider your college studies first, the second side is to grow to be all you can be. The best is likely a combination of both. Take your year off, but then give it all you have... even if thats only two years. Engineering companies LOVE well rounded students, they are looking for the leaders of tomorrow... but if FIRST only produces kids that are dedicated to FIRST... we wont have much of an impact on the world. We need to produce engineers first, FIRST mentors second.