Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

[JaneYoung]

I think everyone should keep talking.
There is a lot be learned, gained, explored.

There's nothing that has been set in stone for 100 years anywhere in any aspect of FIRST. It is still growing and developing in many areas. This is just one. It's all good.

And congratulations to everyone for being so committed to helping this growth. Also, I can't help but say this, congratulations to all of you young women who are seriously trying to figure out how to juggle your course load, your college transition, and FIRST. That's incredible.

I actually weigh in on the side of college first, help with the competitions and off season and come back strong in a few years but that is my conservative opinion only.
Jane

[kibbs425]

I agree with whats being said about being careful with getting involved with a team when you get to college. I just finished my second year at Northeastern and have been on the Nutrons for both years. To go to college and do FIRST is a huge time commitment. Keeping up with classes during the build is tough and requires a lot of scheduling to do it and keep up your grades.

I would just like to say though that being involved in FIRST may help your grades too. Joining the team you will work with other college students some of them will be upperclassmen or the same level as you. The upperclassmen have been where you are and know what its like. They can help you with your classes, homework, how the professors are and what they are like. Use them as a resource. If you have a problem with they homework assignment ask them. They have done it before and can usually assist with most of it.

I know that this past build I stayed after the meetings were finished to help with some physics homework and help them understand how it worked so they would be prepared for the quiz. When I was a freshmen I had some C++ projects that I needed to do and I had the programmer on the team help me debug the program when I couldn't find the problem.

If you join a team while your in college no one says you have to be the person that does everything and becomes over committed. If you just do what you can even if its only a little then its greatly appreciated. Be open minded when going in if its an established team. Its not always going to be like it was back in high school for you. Use the resources of the team to get the help in classes and the other experienced members will help you along the way.

I would say get involved even if its only on a small scale. Make sure you grades don't suffer and take that help and assistance the team can offer you. We've been where you are now and know what its like so if you ask I'm sure we can find an answer to most of your problems. So don't always think that if you stay away from the team it will be the best because it will allow you to spend more time on your school work but if you manage your time and use the assistance/experience of the upperclassmen on the team you will be able to excel in your classes as well and have some fun in FIRST.

[patrickrd]

A lot of excellent points in this thread. However, I hesitate to tell everyone not to try and start a team or be involved with a team in college. Had I not started a team as a Freshman in college, there is no way I would be where I am today. That experience taught me a lot at many different levels and provided me with even more opportunities later in college and into the working world.

However!
- Put learning first. Make sure you maintain an above average GPA and understand what you are learning and why you are learning it (the second part is equally important). If you are doing FIRST and it is getting in the way of your learning or your health (e.g. no sleep or too much stress), take a break.
- Make sure you're doing it for the right reason. I don't need to tell anyone here what the purpose of FIRST is, but it is easy to forget that you are a mentor. Every now and then I see a college-based team full of college students giddy about building a robot and having the best drive system, while the high school students are hardly involved at all. Remember: if there is not one or more high school students by your side and actively contributing, then you are not being a mentor. I have seen some great college student mentors, but it is rare. More often than not, it seems college students still act like they are in high school when they are involved with first. It took me some time to learn this myself and I was probably far too "hands on" during certain periods of time.
- If you are going to start a team, starting a team has to be your dream and you absolutely need to be convinced that it is what you want. Are you "eating, sleeping, dreaming with that one thing on your mind?" If not, then starting a team is probably not for you. If you do decide to start a team, remember, it is a TEAM. Concentrate on finding the right people to comprise your team, get them excited, and let the team take it's own shape. Remember, your only at college for four years, you're paying a lot to go there, and there is an awful lot college has to offer. It is a horrible mistake to be so caught up in FIRST that four years of college pass you by before you realize the world outside of FIRST. Nothing made me happier than to see the team I had started grow and flourish during my last two years at college, while I had reduced my involvement in the team to 3-4 hours per week.


In summary:
- Don't start a team, unless you are sure it's what you want to do, and you can keep an eye on yourself. If it's hurting classes or your college experience, it's time to stop and hand off the efforts to someone else. Remember, nobody will want to hire you if you have a bad GPA. If you maintain a GPA well above average, you will probably have no trouble finding a job. If on top of that you can have FIRST experience or other project experience, you will be in very good shape. A bad GPA and a lot of experience will absolutely not get you your dream job and will not get you into grad school.
- If you are going to be a mentor, same advice applies, but make sure you're being a mentor and not a high school student.

[Jeff Waegelin]

I definitely agree that being a college FIRST mentor is an exercise in time management. My freshman year, I handled this pretty poorly, skipped classes, and ended up with my first C ever. That semester pretty took a big chunk out of my GPA, and I've spent every semester since trying to recover from it. That being said, the last 2 years, I've managed to get a 3.5 and a 3.8, while putting in a lot more time in FIRST than I did as a freshman. I basically sacrificed any vague resemblance of a social life, but, I did what I needed to so I could excel in school and mentor my team.

My biggest advice to anyone considering being a college mentor, though: don't expect it to be another 4 years of high school FIRST. I tried that for one year with my old high school team, and it was an unmitigated disaster. After switching to a team closer to school, I was able to start fresh, in a new role. I realized that it was no longer my job to do everything on the robot, but rather to pass on what I learned to the students. Realizing that I now had a team of high school students who looked up to me, respected me, and learned from me was one of the most rewarding feelings ever. It's a completely different experience, but one of great value, if you realize and accept that new role.

[robodude03]

Personally, mentoring has opened up many opportunities for me throughout college. However, my situation may be a little different. I am a FIRST Scholar Award winner and as such my school likes me and even encourages me to participate in more events. As long as I invite the professors along and bring several robotics teams out to the school, they are fine with me devoting a tremendous amount of hours to FIRST and allow me to fly over all of the country. I have found that if you get your school involved and make a note of what you are doing, while keeping your studies in mind, the school will support you. Throughout the process I have also used the engineers as tutors to help me out in my academics as well

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by patrickrd

... Put learning first. Make sure you maintain an above average GPA and understand what you are learning and why you are learning it (the second part is equally important). If you are doing FIRST and it is getting in the way of your learning or your health (e.g. no sleep or too much stress), take a break. ...
...

If you are going to start a team, starting a team has to be your dream and you absolutely need to be convinced that it is what you want. Are you "eating, sleeping, dreaming with that one thing on your mind?" If not, then starting a team is probably not for you. ...

There are two very different and confusing messages here (I think maybe you have not yet come to terms with your own college FIRST experience?).

Have people started taking the opportunity to attend college for granted? Is college nothing but grades 13-16 now?

My grandparents came to the US from Germany when they were 18, and I was the first person in my family to attend college and get a degree (ever, as far back as I can trace my family tree).

When you are in college your degree, your career, should be the thing you are living and breathing, not FIRST!

When you graduate and either work for a company, or start you own business, then you will have so many people available if you want to be a FIRST mentor. Most engineers dont sit on the phone calling airlines and bus companies to get the best rates for travel, the company travel coordinator takes care of those things. You dont have to connect with schools to set up the details of the company / school interaction, you have your companies public relations people do all that stuff. You dont have to run around like a headless chicken buying drill bits and bolts and wire - you req then from company stock.

This is the thing that most college students are not aware of - when you are an engineer you will have a corporate structure behind you and you can hand off or delegate so many things to other people to make your FIRST mentoring far more easy, and productive, without sacrificing your career.

I know we always feel that FIRST cannot get along without me - if I dont mentor or start a team, or lead a team this year then nobody else will. It takes a little bit of faith, FIRST can get along without you for 4 or 5 years, in fact FIRST will be better off if you give yourself the time you need to really get your career off on a solid foundation before you come back and be a mentor.

You can definitely still volunteer - There are many tasks in FIRST that need to be done that are not as glamorous as being a team founder or mentor, but they are just as important.

[patrickrd]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

There are two very different and confusing messages here (I think maybe you have not yet come to terms with your own college FIRST experience?).

Have people started taking the opportunity to attend college for granted? Is college nothing but grades 13-16 now?

My grandparents came to the US from Germany when they were 18, and I was the first person in my family to attend college and get a degree (ever, as far back as I can trace my family tree).

When you are in college your degree, your career, should be the thing you are living and breathing, not FIRST!

You're right, In a certain sense I have never fully come to terms with my college FIRST experience. I would be wrong to say that my experience was all positive in the long run. It was a great experience for me in a many, many ways and led to countless opportunities, and I am now at a great job working on a very cool project. But I also did go overboard at some points. I think the lesson learned for me was to draw a line to differentiate dreams and ambition from blind dreams and ambition. Whenever you are pursuing a dream or a goal, it is always critical to keep it real and keep a clear perspective on yourself and how your ambitions are affecting you and your future.

If you can't keep a good balance between your ambitions and the academic portion of your college education, then you need to have the foresight to see that you are headed down a bad path. But if you can keep a good balance, all the power to you.

[aaronm_k]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

For my second year of college (this year) FIRST was a little more demanding and my school slid a little bit (I'll have to repeat diff eq.)

Personally, I wouldn't blame repeating diff. eq. entirely on FIRST: math gets exponentially harder once you move out of the realm of stuff that's intuitive from physics and into the realm of pure math. I saw a similar slide in my grades: I usually have no problem getting A+'s in math classes, but in diff. eq. I barely got an A-. I take it as a grim foreboding of my future math classes.

Originally Posted by sanddrag

For me, I can't spend my life listening to professors babble through equations full of greek letters then go home and struggle through books full of stuff that the professor was too lazy to mention. I can take it but I can't drown myself in it. There's got to be more for me. I've got to just go out and build something every once in a while. That's why I did and will continue to stick with FIRST. It is a nice break from boredom.

I will say this though: I have yet to find any extracurricular as good as or better than FIRST.

Hear, hear! Leave the math to the math majors and focus on what you enjoy. College should be an enjoyable experience whichever way you do it.

[aaronm_k]

Originally Posted by Jason Kixmiller

Another point to consider:

Taking a year off from being on a team can be a great decision. Although FIRST is a great program with many benefits for students and mentors alike, "burnout" can really make the season drag. I volunteered for a regional my freshman year of college and that was about it. The time away helped me establish what role I wanted to play in FIRST (and college) and allowed me to approach mentoring with a fresh perspective. The student-mentor transition is tough...the expectations are different as well as the responsibility levels. I would suggest taking some time off...odds are you will come back to FIRST with more enthusiasm than before and will be ready to take the next step.

I can see that burnout would be an issue for FIRSTers who have spent all of high school doing robotics. However, I'm a high school senior on a rookie team, and I feel like I'm just getting started with FIRST, so I can't really see myself taking a break next year. I'm not sure whether that's a good decision. Anyone else in a similar situation?

[aaronm_k]

Originally Posted by Mikell Taylor

::waves:: I started my own team. Then again, I'm in the first ever class at a brand new school -- we had to start *everything*. I did wait until my sophomore year, so I had a good sense of my limits, time management, and so forth. Time management is an important skill to learn. I didn't do many other clubs or organizations, but I did have time for FIRST. And I have a halfway decent GPA!

You know what you're capable of. The above post is right: think before you act. But taking risks is sometimes a good thing.

I'm guessing Olin College encouraged you to mentor a FIRST team, rather than worrying about how it would affect your grades. With their vision, you will learn a lot from experience that you can't learn in a classroom. My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.

[Beth Sweet]

Originally Posted by aaronm_k

I'm guessing Olin College encouraged you to mentor a FIRST team, rather than worrying about how it would affect your grades. With their vision, you will learn a lot from experience that you can't learn in a classroom. My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.

While what you've said is true, there is one fact that continues to ring true throughout this entire thread. College/university will get you a degree, FIRST will not

[Deetman]

For the most part I completely agree with the sentiment being expressed in this thread. I can't speak from personal experience of being a college mentor, but I can definitely say that becoming a college mentor is a big decision. I was extremely close to joining Purdue's FIRST program, I had gone through everything required to become a member and the decision was down to me. After looking at what my course load for the second semester would be (19 hours) and other commitments I already had, I made the difficult decision to pass on joining as a college mentor. Looking back at my first year I do not regret this decision one bit. I never would have been able to get the excellent GPA I have, enjoy the social aspect of college, and make the commitments to the student organization I am in had I joined the FIRST program at Purdue. I am not trying to discourage anyone from doing this, I just want to enforce what has already been said about thinking carefully before you act. There are times where I did miss FIRST, especially towards the end of the second semester where I had a strong urge to build something, but just did not have the time to do anything about that.

Above all that, here is what I feel the important part of my message is. There are other things besides FIRST out there. Stepping out of your shell and trying new things is part of what college is. Purdue, like many other schools, has an extremely large number of student organizations on campus (700+). These can range from engineering related clubs such as Solar Racing, Formula and Baja SAE, all the way to things that are a bit more out of the ordinary like an impromptu comedy club or a wine appreciation society (for those of you of age). When you get to whatever college or university you are attending there will be TONS of callouts. Find a few that interest you besides FIRST and go to the callout. Who knows, you might find something you can be just as, if not more, passionate about.

Kevin Dieterle
Purdue University class of 2009.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by aaronm_k

My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.

Now that doesn't say good things about the education system does it? I would put a but since I am a college student currently, I'll stick with the

Long live FIRST

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Now that doesn't say good things about the education system does it? I would put a but since I am a college student currently, I'll stick with the

Working as an engineer for a couple of years after you finish your undergraduate degree will also teach you more about engineering than you ever learned in college. College is mostly about teaching you to learn independently. The most efficient way to do that is through challenges with deadlines attached. Any of several challenging extracurricular projects you can get involved with while still in college will accomplish that, too; based on some of your posts here, you seem to be taking good advantage of such opportunities now, sanddrag.

FIRST is an even better way to learn how to learn independently, because FIRSTers start younger.

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Long live FIRST

Roger that.

[KenWittlief]

quote]Originally Posted by aaronm_k
My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.[\quote]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Now that doesn't say good things about the education system does it? I would put a but since I am a college student currently, I'll stick with the

Long live FIRST

you learn different things on a FIRST team than you do in college. FIRST is not an engineering crash course, its an engineering exposure experience.

If you attend a college with a 5 year coop program then you will also get the practical hands-on, real project (schedule, budget, tradeoffs, resources....) experience that only comes from being on a real project.

When you graduate from a 4 or 5 year engineering university in most cases you would start working for a corporation as a junior engineer, and they would not expect you to function 100% independantly on a major project.

Engineering is a career of continuous learning, acquiring new skills, and growth.