Macbook!!!

[KenWittlief]

maybe I got the model number wrong. The apple that went up in smoke was a Mac tower (~$2400) - I thought it was a G4, maybe it was a G3?

Ive been using PCs since the first ones came out back in the 80's, and Ive never had a motherboard fail like that. I think a few memory sticks, a couple hard drives that went south

but heres the thing, with a desk top PC I could get a new motherboard for less than $100, easily - or upgrade to a newer processor and board and keep everything else for a couple hundred dollars.

This Applecare thing - all you are doing is paying even more for an already expensive computer, right? If the Apple sales guy is telling you 'you really want the extended warranty" then what is he saying about Apple quality?

[Kyle Fenton]

This is seems to be a pretty good computer at a solid price. Some goodtech specs with it too.

However I wouldn't recommend anyone buying it, unless you really needed it. The best is yet to come in the Apple x86 transition, including but not limited to Intel Viiv, better virtualization technology, and many more things in Leopard. It would be like buying a first generation iPod, while it was nice, it didn’t have the infrastructure that the iPods have today.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

This Applecare thing - all you are doing is paying even more for an already expensive computer, right? If the Apple sales guy is telling you 'you really want the extended warranty" then what is he saying about Apple quality?

I agree with Ken here. The only thing I use that's an Apple is my iPod. And even then, it died on me after a year of use. Luckily, I had purchased the 2 year apple care plan for it. Had I not, I would have been screwed and would have to buy a new one.

If I were getting a mac, I would buy the longest warranty possible for it.

However, I wouldn't buy a mac, just because I want my computer to do more than graphics, video editting, music, etc. - I want to play games. And I don't care what any mac user says - you really can't do that on a mac. Maybe soon because of the Windows booting ability, but on a straight mac you just can't game.

However - this laptop looks pretty decent. Still pricey though. Gimme a call when Apple sells a notebook for under a thousand and we'll talk.

Anyone else think those new commercials are just stupid? Clearly macs are for hip young people while windows based machines are for old, non tech savy people...

I close with a funny CTRL+ALT+DEL comic that shouldn't be clicked on unless you're okay with a bit of foul language - Here

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

However - this laptop looks pretty decent. Still pricey though. Gimme a call when Apple sells a notebook for under a thousand and we'll talk.

There was a time last summer when Apple sold a $999 iBook. Of course, it only had 256 MB of RAM and a CD-ROM drive (yes, you read right) and was aimed squarely at education, but I digress.

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

Anyone else think those new commercials are just stupid? Clearly macs are for hip young people while windows based machines are for old, non tech savy people...

Actually, I got the opposite from the commercials--that Macs are just as much for the tech-savvy as the non-tech-savvy (see also: the digital camera commercial). My mom rolls her eyes whenever I preach the gospel of Steve, though.

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

This Applecare thing - all you are doing is paying even more for an already expensive computer, right? If the Apple sales guy is telling you 'you really want the extended warranty" then what is he saying about Apple quality?

Because we're talking about laptops, don't switch the topics and then switch the comments we made. It's SMART to buy warranties for laptops, no matter WHO makes them.

[Adam Shapiro]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

maybe I got the model number wrong. The apple that went up in smoke was a Mac tower (~$2400) - I thought it was a G4, maybe it was a G3?

The G3/4/5 designations refer to the generation of processor used in the machine. It's possible that it was either of those two, depending on when you purchased it. Judging by the price you stated it was most likely a PowerBook.

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

Ive been using PCs since the first ones came out back in the 80's, and Ive never had a motherboard fail like that. I think a few memory sticks, a couple hard drives that went south

but heres the thing, with a desk top PC I could get a new motherboard for less than $100, easily - or upgrade to a newer processor and board and keep everything else for a couple hundred dollars.

It's definitely possible to have computers last those lengths, however it is also possible to have machines fail. I stated the two earlier examples. I have also had hardware failures of my own including (but not limited to) a motherboard failure, a faulty power supply, a sound input bus failure, multiple hard drive failures, a 3D acceleration failure on a video card due to faulty capacitors, etc. All of those were on PCs.

I do agree with you that the cost of replacing hardware outside of warranty is certainly lower for PCs though. Still, while failures certainly do happen, they aren't as common as one might think for any manufacturer.

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

This Applecare thing - all you are doing is paying even more for an already expensive computer, right? If the Apple sales guy is telling you 'you really want the extended warranty" then what is he saying about Apple quality?

I wouldn't say that. Every computer manufacturer and retailer provides some sort of warranty support, as well as an optional extended warranty. This is not limited Apple. If they didn't cover the product at all after the purchase date, then I would agree with you that there was an issue. The length of time that a company decide it is cost effective for them to cover the product varies greatly among the many well-known computer companies, as well as the lesser-known ones. I feel that, while it seems short in comparison to some others, Apple's policy is generally fair and of decent length.

[Cuog]

I certainly will buy one of these Apple laptops as i head off to college in two years since they do what i need for school: word processing, email, and high security. but for my powerhouse and desktop systems what i am waiting on them to do is release the MAC OSX so that i can install it on my current system in a dual boot config so that i can do MAC for office stuff and windows for games

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Cuog

I certainly will buy one of these Apple laptops as i head off to college in two years since they do what i need for school: word processing, email, and high security. but for my powerhouse and desktop systems what i am waiting on them to do is release the MAC OSX so that i can install it on my current system in a dual boot config so that i can do MAC for office stuff and windows for games

That will never happen, Apple is a hardware company first and foremost. They make the most off their premium hardware. Plus Microsoft makes most of it's money selling software from OEMs, not selling it to customers directly.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Adam Shapiro

The G3/4/5 designations refer to the generation of processor used in the machine. It's possible that it was either of those two, depending on when you purchased it. Judging by the price you stated it was most likely a PowerBook..

I asked my son, it was a G4 dual processor desktop (tower). $2400, lasted 18 months, that comes out to $133 a month for the honor of owning a Mac!

BTW, as I understood it, we could not buy a new motherboard, we could only exchange it for a new one for $350. Macs are so overpriced that Apple is scared to death someone will buy the motherboard and build their own.

[Adam Shapiro]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

I asked my son, it was a G4 dual processor desktop (tower). $2400, lasted 18 months, that comes out to $133 a month for the honor of owning a Mac!

That definitely does hurt to have it die on you so early on. I won't try to say that that isn't really unfortunate and unfair, it is and I totally agree with you that it is too much money to lose like that.

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

BTW, as I understood it, we could not buy a new motherboard, we could only exchange it for a new one for $350. Macs are so overpriced that Apple is scared to death someone will buy the motherboard and build their own.

That is correct, you cannot purchase a 3rd party motherboard for an Apple computer. A large part of this is that Apple is very much a hardware company, as well as a software company. The reason you can buy 3rd party hardware for a PC system is that Microsoft is not such a company. Microsoft focus only on the software aspect of the system, leaving it to the hardware manufacturers and retailers to do the rest. Apple tries to encompass both aspects, so as to give a system truly designed to work as one. They do this so they can optimize the performance of the machine for the aspects that it is designed for, a good chunk of which is multimedia. It's not that Apple is entirely afraid of people taking over their hardware business (though I won't deny the thought has crossed their minds), but that part of the experience of owning a Mac is its full compatibility, and the ability to have Apple overseeing both hardware and software so as to ensure a well-working machine (though it does sometimes fail as is your case).

I definitely wouldn't argue with you on the price of the Apple high-end desktop systems, which it seems to me is the machine your son purchased. I don't own one myself, though I would like to, as they are certainly very expensive. The iMac, however, is actually relatively low-priced, especially considering the hardware capabilities of the machine, as well as the large amount of bundled software that you get. A good portion of the cost of a Mac goes into the really amazing and powerful software bundles, and the operating system itself. Also, unlike the professional-geared desktop systems, the laptop prices are well within reason. My system actually cost me a little bit less than a number of those of my friends at school who all own powerful new PCs. I don't have a MacBook unfortunately so I can't run Windows to do a full comparison, but my G4 PowerBook matches their computers pretty well for most applications.

I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to convert people, I'm just a Mac enthusiast.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Adam Shapiro

That is correct, you cannot purchase a 3rd party motherboard for an Apple computer. A large part of this is that Apple is very much a hardware company, as well as a software company. ...

I dont think you fully understand. I cannot purchase a new motherboard for the flaming G4 FROM APPLE!

you can only exchange the failed one for a new one (for $350 - just for the board, no processors, no memory!). If you dont have a failed motherboard then APPLE will not sell you a new one

because they know people could buy just the mother board and then get everything else (processors, memory, HD, CD drive, case, power supply...) from somewhere else and make your own Mac much cheaper


there was nothing in that G4 tower Mac that cost Apple $2400 to manufacture - they pay the same price as other PC companies to get circuit boards made, to buy hard drives and power supplies... the difference is the extreem markup - Apple makes a huge profit on each computer they sell.

what do you get for the extra $$$? better quality? the engineers at Apple do not hold the patents on design quality - what you are paying for is the logo, the company image

or in my case, blue smoke and mirrors!

[Adam Shapiro]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

I dont think you fully understand. I cannot purchase a new motherboard for the flaming G4 FROM APPLE!

you can only exchange the failed one for a new one. If you dont have a failed motherboard then APPLE will not sell you a new one

I'm not quite sure I do understand. I though you had a machine with a failed motherboard? It seems like you are saying that you cannot purchase a new board because they only will replace broken ones, but that you do have a broken one that needs replacement.

In any cases I think we might want to open a new thread to continue this discussion. I'd be happy to keep going on it, as well as to get others' input, if you'd like to.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Adam Shapiro

I'm not quite sure I do understand. I though you had a machine with a failed motherboard? It seems like you are saying that you cannot purchase a new board because they only will replace broken ones, but that you do have a broken one that needs replacement.

yes, that is what I am saying. No other company in the world forces you to send back your original board before they will sell you a replacement. You cannot buy an extra one, or spares, you cant build your own Mac, or buy just the motherboard to experiment with - they only sell computers: whole computers

no one else does this to their customers! Its outright contempt for the people who buy their machines.

If I need to buy a new crankshaft for my Saturn Vue, I dont have to first prove to Saturn that I own one of their vehicles. If I want to buy a new motherboard for my $3000 Tektronix Oscilloscope, all I have to do is order it.

Apple has gone off the deep end, and the only reason is to keep their prices high, because they have prevented any possible competition. I think this borders on criminal Monopoly-type market control.

[Adam Shapiro]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

yes, that is what I am saying. No other company in the world forces you to send back your original board before they will sell you a replacement. You cannot buy an extra one, or spares, you cant build your own Mac, or buy just the motherboard to experiment with - they only sell computers: whole computers

no one else does this to their customers! Its outright contempt for the people who buy their machines.

I really wouldn't say that nobody else does that. Yes, you can purchase 3rd party motherboards and hardware for a PC as replacement parts. I don't deny that that is not available to Mac owners. It has been my experience, however, that if a computer retailer is to service their own hardware they will indeed require you to send them the broken hardware. This has happened to me with Dell, Packard Bell, and Gateway in the past. I can purchase my own hardware and do the replacement myself, but if I want it done under warranty I have to have their technicians do it, and I do not receive the broken hardware along with the fixed machine.

Again, I would be more than happy to continue the discussion if you'd still like to, but I'm not sure that it belongs in this thread. We could start a new thread if you would like?

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Adam Shapiro

Again, I would be more than happy to continue the discussion if you'd still like to, but I'm not sure that it belongs in this thread. We could start a new thread if you would like?

The reason I brought this up in this thread is to make people aware that Apple's sales, marketing and engineering approach is very different from the PC line of computers and laptops (that changed our world).

There are two ways to approach engineering:

1. Make the best products possible at a price the market will accept. Continue to innovate and improve - stay locked in the engineering design cycle - keep you quality standards high - keep your customers happy by meeting their needs and solving their problems. Accept competition as the driving force that keeps you on your toes, and keeps your engineers working to stay on top of the game.

2. Sell your customers products for reasons other than engineering/design excellence (fads, image, snobbery, vague indications that your products are better with no real substance behind the claims). Then lock your customers in by not letting them modify, fix, improve your products, and not letting them use anything off the shelf from other suppliers whenever possible. Dont allow competition. Make a big profit every way you can from your customers: original sale, upgrades, extended warranties, repairs, supplies, accessories - keep sticking it to them.

A good example is the new Apple video Ipod. There have been video&audio cables out on the market for years with the 3.5mm 4 conductor connector on one end, and the yellow/red/white RCA plugs on the other. Camcorders have standardized the pinouts - you can buy these cables off the shelf at Radio Shack or any AV store. So what did Apple do with the AV cable for the Ipod Video? (Take a guess) they changed the pinout so only $30 cables from Apple will work! Whats more they had to put the video signal where the ground signal should be on the 4th pin of the plug - they had no problem compromising the engineering design to take more money out of their customers pockets.

Thats my point, Apple is not just another company selling computers and laptops and MP3 players - their focus is not on technology and innovation, its on your wallet!

When you walk into an Apple store and hand the Apple saleman $1200 for a computer, when you could get something better for $600, then he knows he has you!