Do we have to buy a kit?

[mechanicalbrain]

I think the title pretty much says it all. This year we found that we used very little in the kits beyond the control board and some of the motors. We are actually having trouble where we have a surplus of unused parts. We know that the kit cost covers the regional costs, but we've been wondering if we could just pay for the regional by itself and forgo the kit?

[sciencenerd]

Well, there are certainly some items in the kit that are necessary for all FIRST robots, no matter how much you can make yourself. To have a functional robot and still stay within the competition rules, many kit items were necessary such as the motors, IFI Robot Controller, OI, etc. Under the 2006 rules, a KOP (Kit Of Parts) was not optional, every team that registered got one. There was also no process that I know of to return any of the items obtained through the KOP to FIRST or IFI and receive a refund. I cannot imagine this changing in the near future, but I suppose it is possible.

If you are looking for things to do with the unused materials in your kit, try contacting other local teams and seeing if they need anything. This year, some teams used materials from the kitbot frame that other teams graciously donated to them to help make hoppers and other sub-assemblies. You could also try posting some of the items on CD-swap, to see if you can swap your stuff with another team for something you can use.

[Tristan Lall]

Go ahead and ask FIRST about it. But it doesn't sound like a very good idea, simply because FIRST is not going to tell you what's in the kit, and what's required to play the game, until the day of the kickoff. So you'll have to procure those items on your own, at your own expense, using time which could be spent building the robot. (Note that some of those parts may not be available on short notice, or may be custom-made.) And, of course, be aware that nobody would be able to cut you any slack if you tried to substitute something for a required part that you didn't receive.

Now, since most of the kit parts are donated or discounted, I wonder how much money FIRST actually spends on a kit these days? It might not even make much difference, in terms of the registration fee.

[Beth Sweet]

This was discussed a bit at the state of Michigan forums. The final decision? Things like the motors and software made the kit valuable even if the other parts weren't used. It was brought up, however, to have the selection of 2 different kits, one "everything" kit and one more motors and software

[Kyle Love]

If I remember right, some motors were only available in the kit and only the kit. I might be wrong though.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

This was discussed a bit at the state of Michigan forums. The final decision? Things like the motors and software made the kit valuable even if the other parts weren't used. It was brought up, however, to have the selection of 2 different kits, one "everything" kit and one more motors and software

Beth, would you please post more about that discussion, either here or in a new thread? Was the idea to divide the kit into two sub-kits, one that every team would need and another that would be optional? And would the contents of both sub-kits be kept secret until kick-off?

[ChuckDickerson]

It really doesn't make much sense to me. Let's see:

Your first regional and KoP = $6000.
Additional regionals = $4000 each.

By my math that whole KoP = $2000.

Since (assuming the rules don't change) you must use the current year's IFI control system then you would start off with a $1150 purchase. Now consider that you will probably need to use at least a few of the motors, Victors, Spikes, at a minimum then it just really doesn't make sense. For that $2000 you get about $17,000 of stuff.

If you have a bunch of left over stuff from previous years that you don't know what to do with post it on CD Swap for sale, trade, or just free if you want to. That's what it is there for.

[Kevin Sevcik]

The kit packing and distribution process is already involved and complicated. Witness the kit part replacement procedures, etc. If anyone remembers the kit fiascos of a few years ago... Imagine that, only teams are also getting the wrong kind of kit that's also missing parts, etc.

I just think it'd be a logistical nightmare. If you start stockpiling extra parts, donate them to needy teams or as spares for the regional or something like that.

[Beth Sweet]

Originally Posted by Richard

Beth, would you please post more about that discussion, either here or in a new thread? Was the idea to divide the kit into two sub-kits, one that every team would need and another that would be optional? And would the contents of both sub-kits be kept secret until kick-off?

Well, let me address this as well as I can (I have emailed the gentleman who had spearheaded the idea in hopes that he can better elaborate). Basically, yes, the kit would be divided into 2 kits where each team could say ahead of time whether they wanted the "robot-in-a-box" kit, or just the basic parts (motors, etc). The idea behind it said that through the years, there are many parts in the KOP which could be released that would not give away the game, that could be released as "non-kit-bot" and would allow the teams to decline other parts. This notion was, for the most part, agreed on by all forum participants.

I think I have gotten most of it correct. Anyone who was at the MI forums and thinks I got it wrong, please step in to correct... Zondag??? Tenbrink???

[Lil' Lavery]

Why not use spare parts for other various activities? We built a kit-bot out of un-used kit of parts materials solely for the programming team to test and try and de-bug as much of the driving related code as possible (including sensors and autonomous) while the actual drive train and frame were being assembled, as well as driver training.
Other things you could do with the unused KoP elements include:
~Making a robot cart
~Making an outreach/demo bot
~Fall/Summer projects
~Cool looking pit display
and probably a bunch of other things

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Why not use spare parts for other various activities? We built a kit-bot out of un-used kit of parts materials solely for the programming team to test and try and de-bug as much of the driving related code as possible (including sensors and autonomous) while the actual drive train and frame were being assembled, as well as driver training.
Other things you could do with the unused KoP elements include:
~Making a robot cart
~Making an outreach/demo bot
~Fall/Summer projects
~Cool looking pit display
and probably a bunch of other things

Or in a spin on that idea and to tie in with Chairmans, why not donate it to teams who don't have that much money, who can use the extra parts? Also, prototyping is easy with the kit bot, just ask 384's team head this year Crebb.

[Vu2000]

I found the KOP to be one of the things that everyone always brings up when someone asks "What's FIRST Robotics?" Not having a KOP would feel SOOO weird.

[Madison]

There is a similar discussion to what Beth mentioned taking place on the PNW-FIRST mailing list as well. Essentially, what's being argued is that there are certain 'core' parts that are included with the kit and others that are included because they're available to include, but don't typically see much use. Examples cited by the PNW-FIRST group included, say, the window motors as non-critical parts from the kit, whereas the control system, obviously, and the CIM motors see repeated use by nearly all teams.

If there were a kit available that included these core components, but omitted window motors (of which, we have almost ten already), and did so at a reduced cost, there would be tangible benefits to the teams opting for the streamlined kit.

[Tyler 783]

My real question if you didn't get the full kit of parts what would you have to play and tinker with to get idea's for the robot. I know some of my old teams best designs and ideas came from fiddling around with the kit the saterday of the kick off and the sunday right after. Also if you don't get the kit were do you get the surgical tubing (that gray elastic tubing). That stuff was an awsome way to store elastic energy in the robot very easily and safely, it was also fun to play with. I say that if you have an excess of parts that you've not been having enough idea's, for every part you have that's just sitting there you should think of a way of making something out of it and then doing it. Not only would it be fun it'd be good practice.

Happy Tinkering!

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Joe Matt

Or in a spin on that idea and to tie in with Chairmans, why not donate it to teams who don't have that much money, who can use the extra parts? Also, prototyping is easy with the kit bot, just ask 384's team head this year Crebb.

Or, as team 116 did, donate extra parts/tools/etc to a team otherwise needy (aka, Katrina teams, and the like). I'm sure there are teams around who have been displaced by old sponsors/mentors/shop owners and have lost all their tools and workspace. Even if you just donate tools you don't need, even if some of them are used, it can still help alot. Obviously, kit elements would help as well, as teams often do need extra building material, sensors, motors, and likewise for various reasons.