Suction Device

[Rob2713g]

Hey,
I was wondering if anyone had some good designs or links for information on suction devices. A team this year at the VCU Regional had an interesting suction device, but I can't recall what team number they were. This information would be very helpful for an off-season project.
Thanks in advance.

[David Brinza]

I recall a very effective suction device used by the Bomb Squad (Team 16) in "Stack Attack (2003)". I think they used a pair of pneumatic cylinders to create the vacuum for a suction cup on the underside of the robot. That device made them immovable on the plastic surface on top of the mid-field platform.

[DonRotolo]

A venturi tube is used to generate a decent vacuum from air pressure. These are available coimmercially. The downside is that they consume a lot of air in the process, the KOP compressor is not a high-volume device. Thius limits te amount of evacuated space available.

Don

[Billfred]

I recall seeing on 1398's 2004 robot a hacked-up Shark vacuum cleaner, which I assume was powered by a Fisher-Price motor for its ridiculous speed, to grab the 2X ball from the mobile goal. The stock vacuum hose was used and connected to a sort of bowl device, which had a nice and wide contact with the ball itself. I'll try and find out some more information about it.

[KenWittlief]

best way to go is to get a vacuum pump and adapt one of the motors in the KOP to drive it.

Vacuum pumps are very common on industrial equipment, from little ones that look like model airplane engines to big multi HP units that can pull a vacuum on a 500 gallon tank in a matter of seconds.

[JB987]

Team 987 made a suction plate for the 03 event with 2 3/4" bore pistons that produced over a 1000 lbs of negative pressure and was awarded the Xerox Creativity Award (I believe at the SoCal Regional)...very effective.

[JB987]

Oops...Team 987's suction device's Xerox Award was for Arizona Regional...

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by JB987

Team 987 made a suction plate for the 03 event with 2 3/4" bore pistons that produced over a 1000 lbs of negative pressure

OK, you got some splaining to do. Air pressure at sea level is 15 lbs / sq"

a perfect vacuum is 0 lbs / sq"

what exactly is negative pressure ?!

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

OK, you got some splaining to do. Air pressure at sea level is 15 lbs / sq"

a perfect vacuum is 0 lbs / sq"

what exactly is negative pressure ?!

If you use ambient pressure as a reference, you can measure down to -15 PSI.

To get 1000 pounds of negative pressure out of a total vacuum, you need more than 65 square inches of suction plate, as long as the other side of the plate is open to the outside air. You can do it with a square foot using only a 7 PSI vacuum source.

[KenWittlief]

ok, I guess its the units that threw me off

pressure is measured in lbs/sq".

So he was saying 1000 lbs of negative force then? That makes sense.

[Mr.G]

We used this venturi pump in 2004 to pick up the 2x ball with 6 inch suction cup. It is a very small unit about as big as a lighter. You had to pull hard to get it off. We actually added a blow off because it would take ~5 seconds for the suction to stop on its own. The compressor kept up with it easily, and we never used the extra storage tanks that come in the kit.


http://www.piab.com/Templates/WebBas....aspx?id=10209

[Joe Ross]

Please be aware that the the rules for suction devices vary more year to year then just about any other rule in FIRST.

[Conor Ryan]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

Please be aware that the the rules for suction devices vary more year to year then just about any other rule in FIRST.

That brings up an intresting entry in this year's game manual

Originally Posted by GDC

<R100> The following pneumatics items may be added to your robot:
• You may use the 2005 Kit pneumatic cylinders, solenoid valves, and pneumatic tubing in addition to
those items in the 2006 Kit, but you must account for their costs as explained in the Cost Limits and
Accounting section.
• You may use a pressure transducer as long as it is rated to the operating air pressure at its mounting point
in the pneumatic system.
• For the purposes of the FIRST competition, a device that creates a vacuum is not considered to be a
pneumatic device and is allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, Venturi-type vacuum generators and
off-the-shelf vacuum devices (as long as they are powered by one of the Kit-of-Parts motors).
• For the purposes of the FIRST competition, closed-loop pneumatic (gas) shocks are not considered
pneumatic devices, and are permitted additions to the robot.

[SURVIVORfan44]

539 was the team this year at VCU that had the suction cup.

In 2004, my team, 616, used suction cups to pick up the huge yellow doublar balls.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

Please be aware that the the rules for suction devices vary more year to year then just about any other rule in FIRST.

It should also be noted that the current stance on suction devices has read about the same since I started in 2004. It's still a gamble, naturally, but not nearly as much of a gamble as, say, developing a flopbot.