When Will Someone Else Get Two

[JackN]

I searched and I couldn't find this thread, so I thought it would be an interesting discussion. When is another team going to take home a second Championship victory that isn't 71. In my opinion it will be next year. There are just so many strong teams with one it is just probability that someone has to take it again next year.

(I couldn't think where this thread would fit so if you want to move it that is fine)

[Jherbie53]

First lets get a list going on who has won the championship in the past and then we can start from there. I'm a little to lazy right now to do it, mostly because I just got back from school 15 min ago. But I will give my full input later.

[EricH]

1992: Nypro and Clinton HS, Clinton MA (now is team 126)
1993: Texas Instruments and Greenville HS, Greenville TX (now 148, although sponsors have changed names a few times, was Raytheon for a while)
1994: Proctor & Gamble and Walnut Hills HS, Cincinatti OH (doesn't exist
anymore, although many of the mentors now mentor 1038)
1995: Raytheon and Woodside HS, Woodside CA (now team 100, their rookie year, no longer sponsored by Raytheon)
1996: Harris and Edison Tech, Rochester NY (now team 73, sponsored by Bausch & Lomb)
1997: Beatty Machine & Hammond HS, Hammond IN (now team 71)
1998: Delphi & Kokomo HS, Kokomo IN, team 45
1999: UTC & Windsor Locks HS & Suffield HS, Windsor Locks CT, team 176
3-dimensional Services & Oakland County HSs, Pontiac MI, team 1, now sponsored by Daimler Chrysler
Delphi & Harding HS, Warren OH, team 48
2000: NASA Ames & _______ HS, San Jose CA, team 255, doesn't exist anymore. Alan Federman's original team.
NASA Ames & Vintage HS, Napa CA, team 232 then, 814 now
Bristol Myers Squib & North Brunswick HS, North Brunswick NJ, team 25
2001: Beatty Machine & Hammond HS, Hammond IN (team 71)
TRW & Mira Costa HS & Redondo Union HS, CA (team 294)
Northeastern and Boston MA HSs (team 125)
Dupont and Wilmington DE HSs (team 365)
Dana & Toledo MI HSs (Team 279)
2002: UTC & Hartford HS, Hartford CT, team 173
Beatty Machine & Hammond HS, Hammond IN, team 71
GM & Willow Run HS, Yipsilanti MI, Team 66
2003: Motorola & Wheeling HS and Rolling Meadows HS, Schaumburg, IL, team 111
Ford & International Academy, Bloomfield Hills MI, team 469
GM & Pontiac North HS, Pontiac MI, team 65
2004: Beatty Machine & Hammond HS, Hammond IN, team 71
Daimler Chrysler & Goodrich HS, Goodrich MI, team 494
Rolles Royce & Carmel HS, Carmel IN, team 868

The above is a list of winners compiled by Joe Ross after we won last year. I will now add the 2005 winners, as best I remember:
Hope Chapel Academy, team 330
GM & _________, team 67
___________, team 503 (sorry, I don't remember the schools' names; I'm also not sure of our current primary sponsor)

So far, several teams (25, 503, 254 (if you count them as 255; I believe the schools merged teams)) have come close. It's only a matter of time.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by EricH

254 (if you count them as 255; I believe the schools merged teams))

254 and 255 are entirely separate. 252 was the team that merged with us.

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

Another factor to look at is "graduating drivers and operators." Some of these teams have VERY young drive teams, that can develop and grow and have the experience. Others will come out of nowhere. But that is something to keep in mind I think.

[Morgan Gillespie]

Each year 3 more are added, given that soon the odds will be against you to not have a team win twice.

[Pat Fairbank]

To finish off Joe Ross' list:

1992: Nypro and Clinton HS, Clinton MA (now is team 126)

1993: Texas Instruments and Greenville HS, Greenville TX (now 148, although sponsors have changed names a few times, was Raytheon for a while)

1994: Proctor & Gamble and Walnut Hills HS, Cincinatti OH (doesn't exist
anymore, although many of the mentors now mentor 1038)

1995: Raytheon and Woodside HS, Woodside CA (now team 100, their rookie year, no longer sponsored by Raytheon)

1996: Harris and Edison Tech, Rochester NY (now team 73, sponsored by Bausch & Lomb)

1997: Beatty Machine & Hammond HS, Hammond IN (now team 71)

1998: Delphi & Kokomo HS, Kokomo IN, team 45

1999: UTC & Windsor Locks HS & Suffield HS, Windsor Locks CT, team 176
3-dimensional Services & Oakland County HSs, Pontiac MI, team 1, now sponsored by Daimler Chrysler
Delphi & Harding HS, Warren OH, team 48

2000: NASA Ames & _______ HS, San Jose CA, team 255, doesn't exist anymore. Alan Federman's original team.
NASA Ames & Vintage HS, Napa CA, team 232 then, 814 now
Bristol Myers Squib & North Brunswick HS, North Brunswick NJ, team 25

2001: Beatty Machine & Hammond HS, Hammond IN (team 71)
TRW & Mira Costa HS & Redondo Union HS, CA (team 294)
Northeastern and Boston MA HSs (team 125)
Dupont and Wilmington DE HSs (team 365)
Dana & Toledo MI HSs (Team 279)

2002: UTC & East Hartford and Rockville High Schools, team 173
Beatty Machine & Hammond HS, Hammond IN, team 71
GM & Willow Run HS, Yipsilanti MI, Team 66

2003: Motorola & Wheeling HS and Rolling Meadows HS, Schaumburg, IL, team 111
Ford & International Academy, Bloomfield Hills MI, team 469
GM & Pontiac North HS, Pontiac MI, team 65

2004: Beatty Machine & Hammond HS, Hammond IN, team 71
Daimler Chrysler & Goodrich HS, Goodrich MI, team 494
CISCO Systems, Inc/North Carolina State University & Southeast Raleigh High School, team 435

2005: J&F/NASA-JPL/NASA-Goddard/Raytheon & Hope Chapel Academy, team 330
General Motors & Huron Valley Schools, team 67
Intier Automotive & Novi High School, team 503

2006: Arial Foundation/Nortel Networks & Loyola High School, team 296
Ford Motor Company/FANUC Robotics Inc./B&K Corporation & Utica Community Schools, team 217
New York Container Terminal/SI Bank & Trust Foundation/Con Edison/Richmond County Savings Foundation/Northfield Savings Bank & Mckee Vocational High School, team 522

Edit: The third 2004 team was 435, not 868.

[Jon K.]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

To finish off Joe Ross' list:


Edit: The third 2004 team was 435, not 868.

Just a note to the list from Joe Ross, 173 is East Hartford and Rockville High Schools and we are based in East Hartford, Connecticut not Hartford, that is Team 181.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

Edit: The third 2004 team was 435, not 868.

Yeah, it was 435, The RoboDawgs

CarNack has predicted this event twice, but has been wrong both times so far:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...93&postcount=1
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...50&postcount=1

Teams have been close many times:
217 won it in 2006, and was on Einstein in 2005
503 won in 2005, and was on Einstein in 2006
254 (even though they havn't won once) has been Championship/National Finalists twice
25 won in 2000, and were finalists in both 2003 and 2006
175 made it to Einstein in 2003, 2004, and 2005
111 won in 2003, and were finalists in 99 and 2001
469 won in 2003, were finalists in 2004, division finalists in 2001 and 2002, and have a legitimate claim that they should have advanced to the Curie finals (and possibly beyond) this year
And many more

The fact stands right now, that 71 not only is the only team to have won twice, they have won FOUR times. Not only that, they have won 3 times in the alliance era, and once before it (1997). They REPEATED their 2001 win in 2002...
They will forever be, the first, and only, two time national champion (key word, national.... )


I beleive that one or two other teams may accomplish this feat, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Never have more than 5 teams won in a single year (2001), and the growth in FIRST as a whole is far more than 5 teams. More than 5 teams who will be tremendously sucessful every year are born each year. As times goes on, there will be more and more parity in FIRST, thus is the nature of growth, and it will be become harder and harder to win in a single year, much less win multiple. More and more teams emerge capable of eliminating the "powerhouses" each year. 980, 1038, 1114, 1126, 1305, 1403, 1511, 1523, 1625, 1731 and many others are amognst a new breed of dominant teams destined to win, and win they will.

[Jherbie53]

I think that Lil' Lavery put it pretty good, there are going to be more teams each year and its going to be hard to compete. Next year we might see a winning alliance at some regionals, or even Nationals, with a majority of the teams having 3 or less years experience. But to stay on subject, I will start my little "guess" at who might do it.

First I want to say that I don't really know that much about other teams, as in I don't look at them as in depth as some of my team mates. But I still know what I'm talking about for the most part.

The teams that can win right now are probably 111, 45, 67, 25, 503, and 494 in my opinion. These teams are in the groove every year and can make it to Einstein, most of the time. They have the best chance of winning in the next 3-4 years, and maybe even beyond that. But as the years go on, teams will get the knowledge to become just as good or even better than theses teams. And we will ad more teams to this list ever year, making it that much more difficult to win again.

Anyhoo, Thats my rant about who going to win again, besides Beatty, and this is always going to be a subject that can be talked about for what seems like forever. Besides, it's not like any of us can predict the future.

[Tetraman]

What I want to know, is when will a Rookie All-Star team win Nat Chairman's the year after they get Rookie All-star is going to be.

[JackN]

/tangent/ So only four teams have Won it and been finalists, all of them playing in the 2003 finals./tangent/

As I said above, I think someone will get two next year. It is always predicted, bet it has to be. So many teams have won at least one, and they are very strong teams. I thought this was 111's HOT year and they almost did it. With 25 returning their drive team, and the several other strong drive teams coming back, someone will take two next year.

[B. Flaherty]

I know that I'm not on 25, but I believe they're in the process of training a new drive team at the off seasons. I think this year's drive team is graduating unfortunately; They're a great group of guys.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

What I want to know, is when will a Rookie All-Star team win Nat Chairman's the year after they get Rookie All-star is going to be.

1997, Chief Delphi

[Alexa Stott]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

What I want to know, is when will a Rookie All-Star team win Nat Chairman's the year after they get Rookie All-star is going to be.

Hm...I wonder if that will ever happen. Sure, some newer teams can win the Chairman's after being around for 3 or 4 years, but not a 2nd year team.

According to the manual, the Chairman's submission for each team should include:

Originally Posted by FRC 2006 Manual

1. How strongly does the submission document the impact FIRST has on the learning experience of
the students, school curriculum, engineers, and/or community?
1. How strongly does the submission document the impact FIRST has on the learning experience of the students, school curriculum, engineers, and/or community?
2. Has the team explained/demonstrated why/how it should be a role model for other FIRST teams to emulate?
3. How well has the team communicated its excitement and impact within the entire school, community, and beyond (state/nation) through participation in FIRST?
4. Has the team documented an innovative way to spread the FIRST message?
5. How strong of a year-round team partnership effort is reflected? (You can define partnership in many ways, including: the partnership among the team’s students/corporate sponsor/engineers;
school/university sponsor/engineers; students/adults; community/team)
6. As a whole, does the content of the documentation exemplify the true meaning of FIRST?
Your Chairman’s Award submission should include documentation for all the above factors.

Some fo these things, I think, a 2nd year team might have trouble doing. During the first year of existence, it is a learning experience and most rookies have a team mentoring them and helping them in the process. In their first year, rookie teams may be more focused on getting sponsors, approval from school for a team, acquiring space, mentors, etc.

One of the aspects of many team's entries is their involvement in starting rookie teams and/or involvement in FLL and Vex. This would be very difficult for a 2nd year team, in my opinion. The team would be getting everything organized and getting the jist of FIRST, which leaves them the offseason to really effect their community as much as and older veteran team.

Also, it might be a bit hard for a rookie team to immediately be able to form itself into a model for future teams.

I'm not saying that it can't be done. I'm sure that sometime in the future, a 2nd year team will accomplish that feat, but they will have to be extremely organized, successful, and be able to get community involvement/support and spread the word of FIRST in a year, which really is not long once you add in the hectic 6 weeks called build season and then the competition season that follows.

Just my two cents, though.

EDIT: Just saw lil' lavery's post. Guess it has been done, but that's pretty amazing. In that case, I wonder how long it'll be until someone accomplishes that feat again.