Attn. Michigan Teams: $2,000,000 FIRST Pledge Cancelled

[Andrew Blair]

Though I completely agree that the grant is great for FIRST and Michigan, that FIRST is the future, and that it was a bit rotten to pull out on the deal after seemingly being committed, there are certain truths about politics.

FIRST is a theoretical investment. Yes I have seen the numbers, and I have seen that FIRST actually does send more kids to college, but there is no guarantee for politicians or taxpayers that those kids will go on to make back that money in Michigan, or even in America! Politics is very much a today kind of business, and voters footing the bill (mainstream America) are much more content seeing a concrete, current investment of their money, especially when there are other pressing budget issues.

That is why budgets are usually spent in their entirety, with virtually no state savings. People want to only give as much of their money to a fickle government as they have to in order to get along at the moment.
So budgets are tight, and the most pressing issues get paid for. As a few people have brought up, the economic condition in Michigan is not wonderful right now, and likely, thats where the FIRST money has evaporated to. Now, with more people worried about their current lives rather than the impending future, FIRST must be pushed under the table. Unfortunate, but perhaps necessary.

The best thing to do is just what Katie suggested. Communicate with lawmakers that FIRST is a vital and worthy investment. Perhaps Michigan should try to fund less teams at first, like half or a quarter of the remaining schools in Michigan. If anything, FIRST's infrastructure would be better off. Then move into bigger and better things.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by MattB703

I don't mean to be harsh to you Beth, I know how much you put into FIRST, but it is exactly that line of reasoning that has GM/Delphi and the rest of the Detroit auto industry in the situation it is currently in.

Cite?

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan

Hey Joe, I don't mean to fire back, but FIRST is an investment in the future. It will not and doesn't pay off immedietly like a Tax Cut does, but in the long run it will make money. Listen to some of the Key Note speeches they have at regionals and in Atlanta, what FIRST provides to students is an opportunity to look at career paths that they wouldn't of considered otherwise.
/Tangent

Oh I know Conor, but to most people, this is spending $2 million on Battlebots instead of extra money in their pocket/school. I agree, it's a great investment, but we have to look at this through different eyes to see why they would can something like this.

[KathieK]

Under the Governor's 2007 budget proposal, the state would provide $2 million in School Aid Funds for grants to high schools to participate in FIRST Robotics Competitions. The grants would be matched equally by the local districts.

I loved the idea that your governor would be so supportive of FIRST. But given the reality of Michigan's current economic situation, I'm not surprised this would be cut. And if it were approved in the budget, just where would the local school districts come up with the funding to equally match the state grants?

[Alex Golec]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

And we want to put 2 million into robotics teams? Seems a little bit like a trivial matter to me, when there are so many businesses going down the tubes.
…
But in this case, I'm saying no. The house and senate made a choice. I hope that they use the money that would have been used for FIRST to revive these businesses so that we don't have to worry anymore about whether or not we will have a job. Jobs mean money, healthcare and a way of life. Right now, in this state, none of that is safe, no matter how many years you've had with a company, how much education you have or how respectable a company you work for. Frankly, I think money for robotics teams should not be at the top of the money list. We don't need future planning, we need the solve the problems now.

I understand and respect your point of view on this matter, however, I feel that FIRST is a worthwhile endeavor within our education system. And its just that which brings me to this: The $2 million is already within the education budget - what they are deciding is how to allocate and make use of these funds. No choices on how to pull money from thin air, or how to sort the general funds - this $2 million is for education.

Yes, I can see it from the eyes of the Michigan business leaders – our economy is in a slump, with seemingly no way to turn out of our dead end. Manufacturing has become a precarious field in these days. It is imperative to find a method to revive the economy and the grow new jobs.

Speaking of our future, winter comes in just 6 months:
CHOICE: Fill those potholes every Michigan winter, or find a better way to build a road

Beth, your last line is one I don't agree with. How can we solve today's problems without planning out the future?

I can fill a pothole every week in winter, each time wondering why I do this continually. Someday, someone will do this job cheaper than me, or hell- someone might just build a robot to do it for me. If we don't keep minds interested in engineering, interested in science, interested in technology, we risk staying the course- a path the economy is on right now.

Look at where we are with the gas crunch- these technology programs for alternative fuel sources took some time to develop after the 70s, and are still being worked on today. What will happen to manufacturing jobs if nothing changes in the work and the same labor is available elsewhere for less? How can we make our labor more valuable, more advanced? Without development into the future, without future plans for what we will do, we might as well stagnate where we stand.

Ford, GM, DCX and other companies 15 years worth of investments in FIRST have helped to show a couple hundred thousands of students the potential in engineering- not just manufacturing, but newer fields in electronics, computer science, and others.

It’s still a draft, their choice is not final yet. The message we are sending them must be loud – FIRST is our life, an educational tool which has developed our passions for engineering and new technologies. It is a marvelous tool.

I too have sacrificed for this program, yet it has benefited me in countless ways. I’m voicing my opinion to them, sharing with our representatives and senators the full potential of FIRST.

Alex Golec

[Kyle Fenton]

While I do hope the teams in MI get money, however people have to realize is that you can't party like its 1999 anymore. You must realize that we are still somewhat in an economic depression.

I don't know about MI current economic status, but here in New England, every state government is pretty much broke. The idea of 2 million dollars for FIRST would be absolutely ludicrous.

But what no one has brought up is the sustainability of having every high school in the state having a FIRST team. Sure you can give money to teams, but without a lot of mentors and other resources, a team wouldn't produce favorable results.

In the world of government you have to start small. And you have to prove that taxpayer money would be worth the endeavor. Maybe ask for 50k, and then maybe it will be a time where 2 million can be set aside for FIRST.

For some of us FIRST is our life, and would like to do anything to advance it. But you also have to look at it from a different point of view from the world of politics where money & accountability is in play.

[JackN]

For those who don't know (or Haven't read the rest of the thread) Michigan is in Serious financial trouble. We have been cutting things for several years trying to get in the positives.

Few things,
Governor Granholm is an excellent Governor who understands the importance of FIRST. That can be seen with how she went to GLR and has met many different teams throughout the state. She did put the grant in the budget, as she sad she would, she is not to blame it is the senators.

Second,
It is very hard to legitimize $2 million while the schools themselves are struggling to get by. Our state has been cutting money from the education system for a while, and this money could be put into the schools. This money should help our struggling education system.

Finally
This money doesn't directly help our sagging economy which is something Michigan needs. We have been killed by all of the lost jobs, and the stunted development that the auto industry caused (No Offense). We were focused around one main business and now that that is failing, everything is failing. This money could help mend our economy.

I am sad to see this grant be lost, because it would help many new teams and would lessen the competition for sponsorship.

[Alex Golec]

This is a chart of the Education Aid Proposal, with the recomendations and items passed listed out in an easy to read format:
http://www.house.mi.gov/hfa/PDFs/HB5789%20Dec%20Doc.pdf

The $2 million cut from the FIRST robotics program (Section 99D) is not a "savings" of any sort, it is just now planned to be used for different plans for education (Sections 99D-F)

Alex Golec

[Not2B]

Originally Posted by JoeXIII'007

I understand your POV, but its a bit too late when Granholm was at GLR and announced to everyone there that she would put $2 million in the budget.

Not to be biased or anywhere near negative, but that's just me. Politicians should not announce one thing and then allow another.

Done as promised.

That's why we aren't flooding her office with letters. We are flooding the offices of everyone else.

And yes... Michigan is in bad shape. It's amazing that an area (SE Michigan) can get so bad so fast. No point in complaining. Just know that you'll have to act appropiately to do the right thing.

[Alexander McGee]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

As much as I hate to be the one to play devil's advocate, I'm going to.

Those of you who live in Michigan know what the economy is here right now. My father works for GM. I worry every day that when he goes to work, he won't have a job when he comes home. And we aren't the only family living that way. People with 30 years at the same place are getting fired because there's no money.

And we want to put 2 million into robotics teams? Seems a little bit like a trivial matter to me, when there are so many businesses going down the tubes.

Anyone who knows me, or has read my stuff on CD knows how passionate I am about this program, how much I've sacrificed. But in this case, I'm saying no. The house and senate made a choice. I hope that they use the money that would have been used for FIRST to revive these businesses so that we don't have to worry anymore about whether or not we will have a job. Jobs mean money, healthcare and a way of life. Right now, in this state, none of that is safe, no matter how many years you've had with a company, how much education you have or how respectable a company you work for. Frankly, I think money for robotics teams should not be at the top of the money list. We don't need future planning, we need the solve the problems now.

Beth,

While I respect your point, I disagree. We both know that this money is either goign to M-DOT or will be used to reduce our deficit. Both of these things will happen anyways, as they are high priorities, but this is a great way NOW to jumpstart FIRST in Michigan and provide our state with more exceptional engineers and technical expertise. I think that this is a much better return on investment, and have a stamp on my letter that tells them this.

A mere 2 million dollars isn't going to do much for our unemployment, and it certainly isn't going to save jobs. Ms. Granholm has been campaigning to Toyota and Honda, encouraging them to build plants in Michigan as a way to stimulate the job market and to gain more American (or Michigan ) acceptance of their products. I think this is a much more satisfactory solution than putting the money back into the budget for “unemployment relief”. The state of Michigan cannot create jobs for all of those who have been or may be laid off; it can only encourage businesses and corporations to build on our land by offering them tax incentives.

Politicians have only one job, to try to get re-elected. Think about that. They may have other responsibilities, but that is their “job”. Dollar amounts like this fly to and from the hands of politicians from lobbyists and supporters to encourage certain bills to be pressed through and others to stay back. This kind of money gets thrown around all the time, and now is our chance to get a piece of it for our program.

So, anyone writing letters like I am, I suggest that mention why you think the return on investment is higher for this program than for some other sort of “short-term relief program”. Again, 2,000,000 is chump change compared to our deficit and our near 7% unemployment. Let us make a long term investment for this program, and Michigan will certainly reap the benefits.

-ASM

[Bill_Hancoc]

List of all 110 MI Representatives

[Bill_Hancoc]

Originally Posted by Alex469

This is a chart of the Education Aid Proposal, with the recomendations and items passed listed out in an easy to read format:
http://www.house.mi.gov/hfa/PDFs/HB5789%20Dec%20Doc.pdf

The $2 million cut from the FIRST robotics program (Section 99C) is not a "savings" of any sort, it is just now planned to be used for different plans for education (Sections 99D-F)

Alex Golec

Any mention of FIRST robotics is in section 99D which as far as im aware is still in effect. 99c is just an engineering named fund to increase MEAP math scores

[Katie Reynolds]

Today, I received a response to the email I sent yesterday:

Dear Ms. Reynolds:

Thank you for your email regarding the reinstatement of Sec. 99 (C) of the School Aid Act. As of right now, Rep. Meisner has mentioned restoring this program. But, because both the House and Senate did not place this back in either of their budgets, there is not a point of difference; which means it is too late to add this back in. Also, Republicans will most likely argue that it's too late for this program because it is not a point of difference and because it is a proposal by the Governor and not one of theirs.

Many legislators have received emails on this request and we are suggesting that you work with Rep. Hummel's (R) office to request this program be inserted in the budget. He is the Chair of the House Appropriations Committee. His email address is shummel@house.mi.gov. His telephone number is (517) 373-1778.

Rep. Rich Brown
110th House District
888-663-4031

[Jon K.]

Originally Posted by Katie Reynolds

Today, I received a response to the email I sent yesterday:

I hope that new guy is ready for a flood of phone calls and emails...

Good luck to all of the Michigan teams in getting this amazing pledge reinstated.

[Towel]

I agree with the person who said that $2,000,000 is pocket change to the government. A single town could give out that much money, never mind an entire state.

My school district (not a rich town nor a poor one) just invested $40,000,000 on a new gymnasium for my school. On top of that a few more million for new classrooms, and busts out a few k for the schools robotics team every year.

My town has a population of 23,852, the entire state of Michigan has a population of 9,938,444. On top of the fact that where my town is situated (Long Island) has some of the highest taxes in the country because of its location.

The fact that giving out this money is even an issue in any government, especially a state government, really makes me scared of what greed can do to people.

There should be absolutely no problem with giving this money to education, but it's all about getting re-elected and keeping yourself in office.