A different spin on things.

[Jaine Perotti]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

I dont think its a simple matter of abuse or brainwashing. Religion is the trump card over all other things. Everyone has priorities in their lives, and the highest priority takes precidence over everything else. We have seen religious extreemists here in the US: Charles Manson convinced his followers he is Jesus, and they were more than willing to murder for him. Same with David Korey, Jim Jones, that guy with the comet/alien cult - mass suicide...

...I don't really see where we disagree here... could you explain what the difference is between my point and yours? All of those people you listed are examples of religious brain washing, and they are very similar to the Islamic extremists who encourage people to commit acts of terror.

I dont think you realize how close to home all these stuff is - these people are not all mentally ill, they are regular people who have bought into something that is not true, is not real. As a result what looks logical to them is lunacy to everyone else. How can you stop it? Ban any form of extreme religious teachings? Monitor and control religious leaders?

But isn't believing in something that is not real a form of mental illness? Of course it seems logical to them - people who are mentally ill are usually not aware of the problem behavior, and if they are aware of it, they don't percieve it as being abnormal. Brainwashing is a mental illness - the psychology of that individual has been altered in such a way that their sense of morality or judgement may be affected, among other things. In this way, nationalism is a form of brainwashing, and I am aware that it happens in places "closer to home". Wouldn't Hitler's manipulation of the German people be classified as such? Or, as a less extreme example, the nationalistic fervor that drove hundreds of thousands of young men to a pointless war in WWI?

And I didn't propose any means of controlling it. In the United States, banning books or religious cults would be an infringement upon our constitutional rights (unless they were infringing on the rights of others). But in places such as Iraq, monitoring people like Al-Zarqawi would probably be a good idea - his intent was to kill people, depriving them of their human right to life.

Again, we have them here in the US. Should Pat Roberson be jailed for inciting violence? Falwell and others who demonize groups of people for not behaving the way they think God wants them to?

No, I never proposed that they be jailed for exercising their freedom of speech. But I do believe that people who commit hate crimes should be jailed, because like Al-Zarqawi, they have infringed upon human rights.