Poll - Legalities

[Steve W]

Thsi poll is to find out what people think of following rules. Be honest please.

[Koko Ed]

Not all rules are popular or even fair, at times but they are necessary and they maintain order. Yes there are people who do not play by the rules and are able to get away with it. Repeatedly at times. That doesn't make it right.That it apparently gives cause to other to break the rules just makes it all the more wrong. And as the saying goes:what goes around comes around. You may get away with it today. You may get away with it tomorrow. You may even get away with it next week but your day will come when you won't and you will be made to regret it. Just ask Floyd Landis is he found cheating prosperous.

[Ryan Dognaux]

I don't like the options for this pole.

It's okay to break rules if I'm being picked on? Where did that come from?

According to this pole, there are only 3 situations in which rules can be broken and it be okay - thinking it's completely okay 100% of the time, breaking them when being picked on, or just that we as FIRSTers shouldn't ever break rules.

I'm going to say this again - we've all broken the rules at one point and another in our lives. There are many, many exteremes and this poll cannot possibly capture all of the situations.

[Beth Sweet]

The only time that I have intentionally broken a rule was when I had no way to comply with it. This rule was the one at IRI that said that those who played in the mentor round had to be 25. As a college team who was competing, we did not have enough mentors over the age of 25 to compete, thus the 19 year old who started and had run the team for 2 years participated. Past that, we do our best to abide by the rules

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

I don't like the options for this pole.

It's okay to break rules if I'm being picked on? Where did that come from?

According to this pole, there are only 3 situations in which rules can be broken and it be okay - thinking it's completely okay 100% of the time, breaking them when being picked on, or just that we as FIRSTers shouldn't ever break rules.

I'm going to say this again - we've all broken the rules at one point and another in our lives. There are many, many exteremes and this poll cannot possibly capture all of the situations.

Picked on could mean many things that is why I used it. Prices too high, no money, can't get part, don't live near video store, need to get some where fast, why am I being restricted, and many many more excuses. I am a black and white type guy that, yes I do wrong, believes that there should only be 2 answers but I tried to expand it a bit for others.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

I have to agree with both sides of this poll. I have broken small rules but I also think that breaking those rules is not right. Sometimes you can't help when you break the rules, it just has to be done. Are you going to be late to work? Will it help you to go 4 more miles over the speed limit to get there on time and save your job for another day? In that case, I would speed. I need the job, I don't want to get into trouble. 4 mph over the speed limit in IL is not warrant enough to give a speeding ticket. Now, bringing a pop into a convention (the reason this poll was made) is a little thing, too. It isn't like the company would be losing much money, if any at all. I wouldn't buy the drink there to begin with. So if I bring one in, there isn't much of a difference than me having my own and not buying theirs and me just not buying theirs. It's not illegal to do this. I can't get into any serious trouble and it doesn't hurt anyone. I do think, however, that if everyone does this it wouldn't be right. As I'm older and more responsible, I wouldn't do this. But it's absurd to charge an arm and a leg for a drink.

That's my reasoning. $0.02... whatever you want to call it. opinion.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Rules are only silly records on paper...

Just because there is a "rule" saying that you must or mustn't do something does not justify doing it.

A good example is slavery. There was a time when slavery was legal. But was it moral? Just because it was legal didn't make it right.

I believe that everybody knows what is right and wrong, and that you should obey all rules that are "right" (or moral).

It was pretty clear that slavery was immoral, and as a result it was eventually abolished.

Luckily most of today's rules are moral. But you should still not blindly follow things just because somebody says they are "rules."

[Billfred]

I have to agree, I can't answer the poll as written.

There are rules that need to be held as absolute (murder, for example), rules that should not be heeded at all, and there are rules that should be broken if there is a genuine purpose behind it that can not be solved through other means. (Consider the young boy who drove a stolen school bus full of evacuees from New Orleans to Houston following Hurricane Katrina.)

That's my view on things.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

Rules are only silly records on paper...

Just because there is a "rule" saying that you must or mustn't do something does not justify doing it.

A good example is slavery. There was a time when slavery was legal. But was it moral? Just because it was legal didn't make it right.

I believe that everybody knows what is right and wrong, and that you should obey all rules that are "right" (or moral).

It was pretty clear that slavery was immoral, and as a result it was eventually abolished.

Luckily most of today's rules are moral. But you should still not blindly follow things just because somebody says they are "rules."

You're not serious are you?
So let's say the ramming in the loading zone for the 2005 game Triple play does not have to be justified because it's just a written rule that can be arbitrarily followed by the participants at their own discretion if they deem it stupid or unfair? Never mind that it's truest intention was to make it safe for the human player to go out and load the robot without the risk of being injured by flying robot parts due to contact.
Rules are rules. You can debate them. You can apply to have them changed but you certainly should not just ignore them because you don't agree with them. That's just irresponsible and is totally against the principles of FIRST.

[Marc P.]

If I remember history correctly, the United States was founded on the grounds that people have the right to certain freedoms not otherwise granted under what was then the law.

Later on in history, the Civil Rights movement was an open disregard for what were the rules of the time.

In the majority of cases, the rules are important and should be followed, but there are a few cases where the rules are only in place to benefit a few, and breaking them does no real harm, or can even be a good thing for the greater good.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

This poll made me think of this.

Some examples from my home state:

* Nobody is allowed to ride a bicycle in a swimming pool.

*You are not permitted to wear cowboy boots unless you already own at
least two cows.

*One must obtain a permit from the city to throw hay in a cesspool.

*It is illegal to own a green or smelly animal hide.

*Bowling on the sidewalk is illegal.

*Detonating a nuclear device within the city limits results in a $500 fine.

*No one may annoy a lizard in a city park.

And so on..... (lol)

And yes, I realize that some of the laws are not accurate.

[Cody Carey]

There are times when rules must be broken, and times that it won't matter if they are. Have you ever crossed the street outside of a designated crosswalk? I'm sure that everyone has, but that doesn't mean anything. It's still against the law. does that mean that it is unconditionally wrong to Jay-walk? No.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Cody C

There are times when rules must be broken, and times that it won't matter if they are. Have you ever crossed the street outside of a designated crosswalk? I'm sure that everyone has, but that doesn't mean anything. It's still against the law. does that mean that it is unconditionally wrong to Jay-walk? No.

But if you get hit by a car while doing so do you have the right to sue or even complain?

[JaneYoung]

I am of the belief that as a FIRSTer, rules are set in place for a reason. They have been carefully processed and thought about before being implemented.
There is also a system in place to question the rules, asking for further explanation or consideration. Regarding FIRST, I believe in following the rules and in mentoring students in FIRST to not only follow the rules but to respect the rules and the people of FIRST who have carefully thought about, developed, and implemented them.

Regarding rules and laws in general, I follow them. Society grows and develops with each generation, changing laws and rules as we go. I pay attention, I participate, I vote.

Jane

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Never mind that it's truest intention was to make it safe for the human player to go out and load the robot without the risk of being injured by flying robot parts due to contact.

Exactly. The rule was created to protect people. Not do them harm, or give certain people unfair advantages. It is therefore a perfectly reasonable law and should be followed.

If you want another example, take file sharing. File sharing used to be legal. But was it moral? You were essentially stealing things, which you should never do.


It all depends on how obvious the rules are. Some of the "dumb rules" I gave examples of are probably completely reasonable. They were enacted to solve a problem. Such as local kids tormenting endangered lizards in a nearby park. But to us they sound crazy.