A new drivetrain Idea?

[Tytus Gerrish]

Hmm very interesting. very cool idea. i am inspired yet faced with a complex and perhaps frivolous challenge without much rewards as far as a competitive drive train None the less. as such i post the question in what situation fanciful, practical or otherwise do you see this machine being an advantage? once you have come up with an answer that satisfies your curiosity and overcomes any laziness you may or may not have incurred through your youth to design such things. bring your design to life through a drawing, a model, an animation , a cad drawing, whatever and then use that to assess and further your creativity. I relay like this idea and i think its relay cool. i have some ideas of variations that could be made to make it simpler and more controllable but and I'm shure you will come up with some too. Please let me see this as a beginning of a new robot designer. they're aren't many people that can come up with and fabricate unique ideas and innovations like that.

[Cody Carey]

Originally Posted by Tytus Gerrish

Hmm very interesting. very cool idea. i am inspired yet faced with a complex and perhaps frivolous challenge without much rewards as far as a competitive drive train None the less. as such i post the question in what situation fanciful, practical or otherwise do you see this machine being an advantage? once you have come up with an answer that satisfies your curiosity and overcomes any laziness you may or may not have incurred through your youth to design such things. bring your design to life through a drawing, a model, an animation , a cad drawing, whatever and then use that to assess and further your creativity. I relay like this idea and i think its relay cool. i have some ideas of variations that could be made to make it simpler and more controllable but and I'm shure you will come up with some too. Please let me see this as a beginning of a new robot designer. they're aren't many people that can come up with and fabricate unique ideas and innovations like that.

One thing that I thought it would be useful for was driving around a centralized location.

Take the 2006 game for example. If you had a robot that could drive in arcs and keep itself aimed at the goal based on how large the arcs were, that would be quite an advantage.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'm having trouble convincing myself this would work. Specifically, the omnis are blowing my mind at this point. I know the theory behind them is always that they sideslip to make turning super easy, but they also end up getting pushed side to side. The one arrangement I can sort of envision is when your hinges are at 45 deg and the sides are now perpendicular to each other. If just one side moves, the opposite side will side-slip and it'd end up going that direction. So I'm skeptical it'd do exactly what you think it will in that arrangement, and thus I'm not entirely certain about any other arrangement.

It's still an interesting design, though.

[Cody Carey]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I'm having trouble convincing myself this would work. Specifically, the omnis are blowing my mind at this point. I know the theory behind them is always that they sideslip to make turning super easy, but they also end up getting pushed side to side. The one arrangement I can sort of envision is when your hinges are at 45 deg and the sides are now perpendicular to each other. If just one side moves, the opposite side will side-slip and it'd end up going that direction. So I'm skeptical it'd do exactly what you think it will in that arrangement, and thus I'm not entirely certain about any other arrangement.

It's still an interesting design, though.

Hmm...The omnis were originally just so that you could open and close the sides without an extremely strong motor. If you replaced them with grippy wheels, it would just take a lot more power to pull the wheels sideways when opening or closing the wheel-base.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Cody C

Hmm...The omnis were originally just so that you could open and close the sides without an extremely strong motor. If you replaced them with grippy wheels, it would just take a lot more power to pull the wheels sideways when opening or closing the wheel-base.

I was thinking grippies just at the middle or closest to the hinge. It would certainly do exactly what you want with a single grippy on each side.

[sanddrag]

I think this is a great idea for any time it is my opponent. I think it will get pushed all over the place by the other robots with tank style drivetrains. But an innovative idea nonetheless.

[MikeJ675]

Just an idea, if you replaiced the omni wheels with mecanums, wouldn't you be able to move back and forth as well as side to side?


Edit-Took the idea and ran with it. I love Rhino 3d

[Kevin Sevcik]

Mechanums would theoretically give you full range of manueverabilty even with the wings fully swung out, albeit with reduced speed in most directions. I must admit that the code for mixing a joystick signal to appropriate motor signals at any amount of swing out would be a headache I wouldn't look forward to, but you would have just about the coolest drivetrain around if you pulled it off well.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

OKay, I see one glaring problem. What's stopping another robot from planting itself next to you and stopping you from opening up your "wings?" I mean, that would be a good defensive strategy against a robot of that nature.

There was a robot, I think it was 930 in 2005 that opened up like this but I'm pretty sure it was for a different reason.

Also, how much do you think this set-up, as you have it now, base only, would weigh? Looks pretty heavy.

But nonetheless it's a very interesting idea. I'd like to see it a bit more.

/Edit: If you used a two-wheel crab drive, wouldn't you just be able to turn the crab and that would open itself up? Turn the wheels to X degree and drive the wheels. This would cut down on some weight I think and just hinge the wings. And then you should be able to move side to side, in an arc, and forward/backward with less weight than the mecanum.

[Ben Piecuch]

Based on the drawings I've seen in this thread, isn't this type of design going to violate rule <R08>

"...In other words, after the start of the match the robot may expand up to a maximum volume of 60 inches by 60 inches by 60 inches."

Granted, this was a specific rule for 2006, but you have to keep such rules in mind for future designs. And now to comment on the design, I'm not quite sure how this is an advantage or improvement over a crab or mechanum design. It seems much more complex to make a completely hinged system.

BEN

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Ben Piecuch

Based on the drawings I've seen in this thread, isn't this type of design going to violate rule <R08>

"...In other words, after the start of the match the robot may expand up to a maximum volume of 60 inches by 60 inches by 60 inches."

Granted, this was a specific rule for 2006, but you have to keep such rules in mind for future designs. And now to comment on the design, I'm not quite sure how this is an advantage or improvement over a crab or mechanum design. It seems much more complex to make a completely hinged system.

BEN

Only if they used the largest possible starting dimensions. If they chose to start as a 28X28 square they should have enough slop to make this work w/in the 2006 rules.

[eshteyn]

There is really no need to create such a complex drive system. It would create so many more problems in the weight catagory as well as for your team programer. Another problem is during a match your robot will be extremely voulnerable to be redirected and trapped. If anpohert teams robot is next to yours while you are switching modes your robot will be spun around using its own power from the motors opening then closing the hindge. If your in the open possition and something gets into your robot while your closing it will jam up your robot and make you waste preciouse time to fix the problem. If you are looking for high manuverabiliy then i suggest using mechanum wheels.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by eshteyn

There is really no need to create such a complex drive system. It would create so many more problems in the weight catagory as well as for your team programer. Another problem is during a match your robot will be extremely voulnerable to be redirected and trapped. If anpohert teams robot is next to yours while you are switching modes your robot will be spun around using its own power from the motors opening then closing the hindge. If your in the open possition and something gets into your robot while your closing it will jam up your robot and make you waste preciouse time to fix the problem. If you are looking for high manuverabiliy then i suggest using mechanum wheels.

Are you talking about the design that uses omni wheels, or the 4 wheel mecacum design? The 4 wheel mecacum design seems better because it will always be omnidirectional and still be able to travel in an arc.

Imagine: Locking onto a goal, facing it, adjusting to the right arc angle. Then hit left/right on the stick to travel on the arc. Hit forward or back to move closer (mecacums remember) or farther, the angle readjust automatically. You can juke forward, back, left and right instantly without looking away from the goal. I doubt next years game will have the same situation though :/

[JamesCH95]

I see one big flaw in it... when the bot is extended out for side-to-side motion (Crabbing) it is totally vulnerable to being pushed back and forth because of the omni-directional wheels. I think the drive train design, while pretty cool and original, would be so poor defensively that it would be almost useless in a FIRST game.

Maybe another application could be in order? It would be cool if you could use it in an off-road vehicle so it could snake through obstacles. Modification would be needed, but it has potential.

[DanDon]

I agree with James. While the drivetrain has potential for outside uses, if you look at the way defense has been coming back to FIRST, it would be pretty much useless, due to easily being pushed, and the great possibility of jamming the system.