Segways banned in Britain

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

The Segway can not do that. There are no training wheels or kickstands on both sides that automatically deploy to keep the Segway upright if its control system fails.

Just as an interesting note, the other day at a BSO concert, I saw an old guy on a segway that had some odd training wheel type contraptions. It looked like the effect of building in two extra wheels so that the segway didnt have to self balance (it kills the technology a little, and Im sure immobilizes the capabilities a bit, but I dont think I would have wanted to see this teetering old guy on a self balancing segway!).

Now what I dont get is that (by doing a quick google search), nearly 21,000 people were KILLED in car accidents, and another 3,000 in motorcycle accidents in 2000. 5,000 pedestrians were killed by cars in the same year! Yet we dont ban cars or motorcycles... How many people have you heard killed by segways? We simply make laws to register & insure your vehicles... why cant the segway fall in the same category? It seems silly to ban something that most of us know very little about, and very little research has been done & published.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Just as an interesting note, the other day at a BSO concert, I saw an old guy on a segway that had some odd training wheel type contraptions.

Are you sure it was a real Segway? There are segway knockoffs (from china I think) that dont balance, they have castors like you described. They sell for around $400.

Im pretty sure if you put castors on a Segway, that were in contact with the ground all the time, it would be un-usable. You have to lean forward to make a real Segway go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/X-Treme-XT-300-E...QQcmdZViewItem

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

Good, they should be off the streets....and sidewalks. They're too big to be riding around and are dangerous to pedestrians. Honestly, they get pretty annoying at events. And they definitely should be kept off the roads. The Brits got something right! I know I'm definitely going against the grain posting it on these boards (posting a message not bowing down to Dean Kamen), but I know I am not alone. Off these boards, a lot of people definitely don't bow down to him. I'm not saying what he's done for the youth and getting them involved in engineering is bad, it's quite a good thing, and I do applaud him for that. It's just I don't see the usefulness of some of this invention. I mean, ya, it's cool, it balances and has 2 wheels. Well...I can balance a bike, a bike has 2 wheels, and the battery doesn't die.

I'm sorry, but I'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

The way I see having a Segway right now is like having a car in 1910. You're that one person in the entire city who has a Segway, just like the one person in your city that had a car back in 1910. Your Segway is heralded as a miracle in urban planning, oil independence, and environmentally friendly transportation, just as the car was heralded as a miracle in transportation (especially for the huge problem back then of horse excrement in the streets).

However, by having a Segway all kinds of unnecessary biased opinions and fears are had toward you, in the same way that people were petrified of having cars in roads in 1910. (You can't have cars in the road - they'll scare the people and horses and get in the way of the trolley!)

Now look where we are. Within a few decades of the cars initially coming out, we started building our first highways and byways, and we started designing cities around cars. It's time for a change. Every century brings a new marvel in transportation. In the 19th century it was railroads. In the 20th century it was automobiles and airplanes. In the 21st century, it may likely be Segways.

This is not to say we will completely abandon our older modes of transportation: the United States still has the largest railroad network in the world, and cars and airplanes aren't going to the Smithsonian anytime soon. All this means is life is changing, and we must keep pace, or be left behind.

Why ban them? I would much rather have restrictions like a 6 mph speed limit on sidewalks, or 3 mph speed limit in heavy pedestrian areas, than outright banning. Outright banning accomplishes nothing except angering people who weren't doing anything wrong in the first place. If I lived in Britain, I would continue to commute using my Segway in a responsible manner as an act of civil disobedience.


Also to note: almost everyone I've met has been very welcoming towards the Segway - and even those who are cautious always change their mind after riding one. I've even rode my Segway into the high school where our robotics team meets, and met in person with the principal there. He did not yell at me or chide me for "terrorizing pedrestrians", but rather he was quite intriguied by the Segway, and stated how I'd never be late to class again if I went there. He had no problems with me gliding through the hallways full of people, and the all the other people in the hallways didn't seem to mind either.

The only problem (it wasn't a problem to me ) was that all the girls chasing after me caused more distress to other people in the hallway than I did on my Segway. Who would have thought that a Segway is a huge chick magnet?

[Michael Hill]

I personally don't believe that everyone using a segway in pedestrian areas realistic within the next, at least, 60 years. Think about it, it's busy enough walking around a heavily pedestrian area (think New York City, Chicago, Tokyo, etc.) It's hard enough to walk. The amount of ground area a human takes up is far less than what a segway will require (about 2-3 times the ground area of a pedestrian). As time goes by, say 60 years or so (when I say that the price would go down and more people would want a Segway). The population will have increased dramatically (no doubt as a result of better medical care, etc., but that's beside the point). What I'm getting at is that there will be no room in crowded pedestrian areas for people to walk, let alone ride a Segway.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

I personally don't believe that everyone using a segway in pedestrian areas realistic within the next, at least, 60 years. ....

you would have to do a little experimentation and research to see if your assumtions hold true.

1. A Segway can go faster than 3mph if the space is open. This means, instead of having everyone walking 3mph from A to B, once they hit an area that is opened up a little they can speed up. That means they would be spread out more, and the result is the sidewalk would not be as congested.

2. A Segway gives you more range. If you can ride, and ride up to 12mph in an open space, then instead of staying within a 1 or 2 block area for lunch, you could go 6 or 8 blocks, and still get back within your lunch hour. This means in areas that are dense and congested now during lunch (or rush) hour, the people would be spread out over a wider part of the neighborhood - they would have more options.

3. regarding floor space, I dont think the smaller version of the Segway takes up 3 times as much space as a person walking - maybe the bigger ones do?

Its difficult to do a realistic assesment just in your head. Studies would have to be done on real city streets, to see what the effect is, and what the end result would be.

[JaneYoung]

Austin is not congested like New York or Tokyo, though it does have its moments. We have spent time, energy, and money creating bike lanes in Austin. They are not everywhere but where they are, they work. We have a strong cyclist community here. We have also made our city more accessible for the wheelchair community over the last 15 years. It would take time, energy, research, and money to create a Segway community but it is doable, using the guidelines we already have with our bikes and wheelchairs. The few Segways I have seen in the downtown area use the sidewalks and everyone gets along just fine.

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by Stu Bloom

Mike ... WHO ARE YOU ?? And what gives you the right to pass judgement like this??...
If "these laws" are not designed for Segway owners then who are they "designed for" ??

I probably could have researched his name and found a more sensitive way to characterize his disabilities. My apologies. I have a great respect for people with severe disability because I don't know what I would do if I were them. Probably live life just like them. I might even want to use the Segway...

My stance on the issue doesn't change. It is not safe for him to ride a Segway. That doesn't mean I think he shouldn't. He is a person and he has every right to risk his personal safety. It's not the best idea to sky dive but some people find it fun. Everyone has the right to take whatever risk they want. As an engineer I can't condone his actions. As Ken has said, the failure mode in the Segway has the operator hitting the pavement. On an iBot the failure mode is the chair attempts to land safely on all four wheels (this is a guess.)

As for the laws and to whom they apply... I think the Chief Delphi community is a group of great citizens. It would probably be fairly obvious to everyone that one shouldn't murder someone else. Some people need laws to tell them that. Thats who the Segway laws will be written for. Someone who only cares about themselves and will turn the sidewalk into their personal expressway. That's why Segways won't be allowed on sidewalks.

[i_am_Doug]

Originally Posted by Richard

[BTW, at 72" height and 215 lb., I am clearly overweight and borderline obese by CDC standards. So maybe I'll be one of the Segway-riding fat people myself.]

Im 16 and it says Im overweight...

Hmm I think the seg would be really great to ride to school, work ..I personally havent tryed one but i wanna.

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

1. A Segway can go faster than 3mph if the space is open. This means, instead of having everyone walking 3mph from A to B, once they hit an area that is opened up a little they can speed up. That means they would be spread out more, and the result is the sidewalk would not be as congested.

2. A Segway gives you more range. If you can ride, and ride up to 12mph in an open space, then instead of staying within a 1 or 2 block area for lunch, you could go 6 or 8 blocks, and still get back within your lunch hour. This means in areas that are dense and congested now during lunch (or rush) hour, the people would be spread out over a wider part of the neighborhood - they would have more options.

3. regarding floor space, I dont think the smaller version of the Segway takes up 3 times as much space as a person walking - maybe the bigger ones do?

Great point....

[Ashley Weed]

Originally Posted by Stu Bloom

"We have this debate with people in our organization all the time about whether or not they should display a handicap sticker," Kerr explained. "Younger users [see their disabilities disappear] when they get on the Segway; for the first time in their life, they aren't disabled; and they don't want to put a handicap sticker on their Segway to remind people."

More individuals should pay closer attention to that quote. Not even specifically for the Segway, but for the way that all individuals are adapting technology in their differently-abled lives.

Everyone needs to understand that the Segway is not a one shot deal on a system shutdown or failure. There are several warnings in place for all types of situations you may come across that will allow the most non-able person to properly dismount. One of the greatest joys I have is taking my Segway home and allowing my 80+ year old Uncle go for glides after I strap his oxygen tank to the control shaft. He starts to glow like he's a kid again.

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by i_am_Doug

Im 16 and it says Im overweight...

Hmm I think the seg would be really great to ride to school, work ..I personally havent tryed one but i wanna.


Great point....

Doug, the thing I love the most about my Segway is the look on people's faces when they try it ...

I would be happy to let you try mine whenever there is an opportunity to do so. You can look for me at the FIRST Championships, or any of the regionals I attend. Unfortunately with you in Oregon and me in Indiana, I don't know if we will be attending any of the same events. Most Segway owners I know are glad to give demos, especially to an interested FIRST Robotics team member ...

Next time you see one, ASK !!

[i_am_Doug]

Originally Posted by Stu Bloom

Next time you see one, ASK !!

Pssh next time I will..

At the school i goto now here in independence the principle rides one around /

[Denman]

Well, i'm disappointed, personally, i have never seen a segway in britain (only at new york regional in fact) and even i could ride that after about 5 minutes practise.
to be honest, there are a lot of pointless laws like that, and it just takes some interpretation, for example, theoretically if you have a taxi, you have to keep a bale of hay for the horse in the boot (trunk) of the taxi for it....

[Alexa Stott]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

Im sure that someone could rig up a Segway with 'landing gear' that can be deployed by the rider at the push of a button, but the stock Segway is not designed for that type of use.

But there are still other ways to stop on a dime. I was in the Outer Banks, North Carolina recently and I went on a Segway tour, which required everyone to participate in a training course before the actual tour. We had to cross the main road to get from the shop to the place we'd be touring, so our instructor taught us this little emergency stop thing.

All one has to do to stop the Segway on a dime is just push your arms straight out and lean back. I've stopped perfectly on a dime while going ~8 mph. The Segway also automatically shuts down if you're going too fast, either backwards or forwards.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Stu Bloom

...Most Segway owners I know are glad to give demos, especially to an interested FIRST Robotics team member ...

Next time you see one, ASK !!

I think the first time I saw a Segway up close was at the last Championship held at Epcot. A couple disney people were riding them around the FIRST area, and it got to the point where they pre-emptively started telling people "before you ask, No, I cant let you try it".

But from what Ive seen, most private owners are not like that. So Im guessing, if you see a cop or mailman on a Segway...... No!

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by AtalanteStar25

But there are still other ways to stop on a dime. ....

well, yeah, the Segway is great if its working perfectly, and is being used as it was intended to be used.

The concern expressed in this thread over using the Segway as a transport system for the disabled is what happens when something goes wrong - either the rider does something the segway was not designed to handle, or the segway malfunctions (for example, the battery goes open circuit while you are riding at 12mph?).

The worse case failure mode on a Segway results in a rider kissing pavement. Most people in average health and good physical condition could jump off and land on their feet. But if you are strapped in a chair that has been tiewrapped onto the Segway... it was not designed for that type of usage.