USB Joystick adapter is here!

[slickguy2007]

Very nice Mike. What it says in my title applies to more than one person in your family.

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by slickguy2007

Very nice Mike. What it says in my title applies to more than one person in your family.

This product was created by Omar Zrien and myself. I cannot accept sole credit for it's creation. And don't get to excited. You have not seen the price yet.

[Adam Richards]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

This product was created by Omar Zrien and myself. I cannot accept sole credit for it's creation. And don't get to excited. You have not seen the price yet.

Would this price be in the few hundred range, or thousand-plus range?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

And don't get to excited. You have not seen the price yet.

I thought you were going to give them away to your friends. Wink, Wink, Nod, Nod.

[xrabohrok]

I know that this adapter is for the purpose of hooking the computer to the robot with a computer that doesn't have a serial port (or a convienient one anyway), but has anyone explored the idea of actually using this for a joystick? I have this totally awesome joystick with throttle and stuff...

[chris31]

Originally Posted by xrabohrok

I know that this adapter is for the purpose of hooking the computer to the robot with a computer that doesn't have a serial port (or a convienient one anyway), but has anyone explored the idea of actually using this for a joystick? I have this totally awesome joystick with throttle and stuff...

You must be confused. Please read this thread. This is for connecting USB joysticks to the OI and not for any other purpose.

[Astronouth7303]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

This will not be an issue.

It varies based on the layout of the stick, although with the number of channels available in HID, I'd think it's not a problem.

Can you configure how it maps the 30+ (?) analog/digital channels in HID to the 4&4 on the OI?

Is the power jack compatible with common battery packs?

Do we have any idea if FIRST will allow an externally-powered device?

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Astronouth7303

Is the power jack compatible with common battery packs? ...

From the photo it looks to be compatible with a wall mounted power supply; e.g., Digikey T313-P13P-ND (5V, 550mA, $4.85) or similar. The 5V connector appears to be a 1.7mm receptacle with center positive. Mike, please correct this if I'm wrong about the connector.

Whatever the connector, you should be able to get one easily and fit it to whatever you want to use to power the USB device and the Chicklet.

The more important question on changing <R78> remains to be answered:

Originally Posted by 2006 Manual

<R78> All equipment connected to the Joystick Ports of the IFI Operator Interface must be powered solely through the power available through the port. External power sources of any type are not permitted on any equipment connected to the Joystick Ports. Portable computing devices may not be connected to Joystick input ports on the Operator Interface. Power-passive devices (e.g. joysticks that draw their power solely through the IFI Operator Interface joystick port) are permitted.

It would not be sensible to simply delete the rule; to minimize hazards FIRST will probably want to restrict the type of external power supply allowed. Or maybe they'll just keep the "power-passive" requirement as it has been.

Obviously I'm just speculating here -- if anyone has actual knowledge of FIRST's intentions, they probably should keep it quiet until kickoff.

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by Richard

From the photo it looks to be compatible with a wall mounted power supply; e.g., Digikey T313-P13P-ND (5V, 550mA, $4.85) or similar. The 5V connector appears to be a 1.7mm receptacle with center positive. Mike, please correct this if I'm wrong about the connector..

The connector is a 2.1mm center positive. The supply is included with the device.

Originally Posted by Richard

The more important question on changing <R78> remains to be answered:It would not be sensible to simply delete the rule; to minimize hazards FIRST will probably want to restrict the type of external power supply allowed. Or maybe they'll just keep the "power-passive" requirement as it has been.

This is the important question indeed. We are working to find a way to power it off of the O/I. A possibility is powering it from the competition port.
As far as the rule is concerned, I am not even going to begin to speculate weather or not FIRST will change this rule. I will say that it would be dissapointing to not be able to use this technology because of a rule that was created before it existed. We were aware of the necessity of a rule change prior to developing the device. That is the risk you take in bussiness I guess this is similar to what Dean Kamen must have gone through when he created the segway. I know some City's don't allow segways on the streets or sidwalk's. It is a shame to see such technology get restricted.

[Not2B]

My guys on our geekTeam did the PS2 controller last year. They got it "working" by using the comp port. However, I used the word "working" because they only got SOME functions working. They couldn't power some functions on the PS2. Still useable, but not perfect.

OK - point of the post - They could have gotten all functions working had they been able to use an external power source. They talked to the IFI guys for a long time about this. We never did use an external power source, of course, because it was against the rules. But it sure would be nice.

Now forget the rules for a second - this is still a GREAT (WICKED GREAT) way to get younger kids and regular people interested in your robot in demos. Hand them a big control board with switches and joy sticks, and they don't get it. Hand them a game controller, and WHAM - they pick it up right away and become interested much quicker. It's amazing how useful it is for demos.

I'll keep my fingers crossed!

[Richard Wallace]

Thanks for the correction on the connector size.

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

... We are working to find a way to power it off of the O/I. A possibility is powering it from the competition port.

<R79> appears to preclude that option:

Originally Posted by 2006 Manual

<R79> The Competition Cable at the Alliance Station must connect directly to the Competition Port on the Operator Interface. No intermediate connectors, cables, or “pigtails” are permitted.

I had no part in drafting <R79> or any other rule; however, the intent seems clear to me. FIRST wants to ensure that the O/I responds correctly to the competition port. Correct response is critical to safety on the field.

So as I see it the question is, can FIRST ensure safety on the field while allowing externally powered devices connected to the O/I joystick ports? Maybe their answer is no. Or maybe it is yes, but only for pre-approved devices; i.e., not for custom circuits that are presented for inspection at an event, but maybe for circuits that have been pre-approved through some kind of advance review and inspection. Clearly the O/I itself had to be evaluated and approved, so why not another device?

[Pat McCarthy]

I don't know if it's any better from a safety/hazard standpoint, but instead of hooking up to a power outlet that FIRST would provide, a team could make a battery powered option that plugs into the device it is powering.
HOT used the 222's plans to make a battery power source to run the whole OI, for public events, using a small rechargeable pack.

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by Pat McCarthy

I don't know if it's any better from a safety/hazard standpoint, but instead of hooking up to a power outlet that FIRST would provide, a team could make a battery powered option that plugs into the device it is powering.
HOT used the 222's plans to make a battery power source to run the whole OI, for public events, using a small rechargeable pack.

This was the plan if external power was not available. However I'm sure a lot of matches will go poorly due to dead batteries. I see the battery pack as another failure point therfore I do not think it is the way to go. I can not remember how many times I wanted to scream at the camera because of a dead back-up battery.

Yes I know about the jumper for 12v. We used 12v on the practice bot but not the comp bot.

BTW I am writing this inbetween programming Chicklets...Programmers note the time......LOL

[Not2B]

Originally Posted by Pat McCarthy

I don't know if it's any better from a safety/hazard standpoint, but instead of hooking up to a power outlet that FIRST would provide, a team could make a battery powered option that plugs into the device it is powering.
HOT used the 222's plans to make a battery power source to run the whole OI, for public events, using a small rechargeable pack.

IFI personel have a battery pack with an adpater that plugs into the OI power plug. That's all you need. We were able to get enough power from the OI when the OI was plugged into a power source. We were very close to the edge of having enough power when the OI was powered off the competition port.

[Mike Copioli]

So as I see it the question is, can FIRST ensure safety on the field while allowing externally powered devices connected to the O/I joystick ports? Maybe their answer is no. Or maybe it is yes[/quote]


The answer, I believe is yes. Of course I'm biased... Actually pulling power from the comp port should not be a saftey issue. The robot's are disabled via the mode bits. I believe, not certain, that the E-stop kills power to the O/I. With these saftey features already in place there is no reason, other than the rules, that pulling power form the comp port, would be unsafe. I agree that custom circuits should not be allowed use external power sources.