Harbor Freight Machinery

[Simon Strauss]

Across this forum i have heard bad things about the quality of the hand tools sold on Harbor Freight and i was wondering if anyone had experience or insight into whether or not this applies to their larger products. My team is looking into purchasing this mill from them and want to know if it will be reliable(i expect a 2dollar hammer to fall apart not a 900$ mill) and worth our money.

Thanks,
Simon

[dlavery]

Simon-

Check this post for some comments on this topic.

The answer to your question is that the only way to know for sure is to inspect the exact machine that you would be buying. Harbor Freight has been known to carry both higher-quality Rong Fu equipment and cheesy knock-off clones, and sell them through the same catalog number. Since a typical price for a new Rong-Fu RF-31 is in the $1500-$2000 range (based on the options included), I would be very surprised if that is what is being offered. I would suspect that this Harbor Freight machine is yet another RF-30/RF-31 clone. As such, I would be very cautious about the condition and quality of the machine until I had inspected it and determined if it was suitable.

Also, I would take this as a big clue: if a company does not care enough about their business to even proofread their catalog copy to ensure that it is correct and error-free, then how likely are they to care about me as a customer? (i.e. read the catalog page you referenced very carefully - does the quality of their product description give you confidence in the quality of their merchandise?)

-dave

[sanddrag]

Try to take a look at it in a local HF store if you can. I've played with the one in my local store and it appears to be of decent quality. It might not seem like it from the picture, but it is quite a large machine (with massive gibs too). I'll take a better look at it next time I'm in there and really see if its worth buying. Personally, I wouldn't buy a round column mill but that's me.

[Bill_Hancoc]

I have actully found the opposite with HF tools...the small cheap hand tools arnt very high quality but arent all that bad. Especially when you consider the price...if there is a tool that you really need but is generally really expensive and you dont plan to use it often get it...another thing that i have found that is good to buy there is drill bits...i found a 10 pack of 1/4 in Ti Nitrade coated bits for under 5 dollars and a few other good deals....and it this price if i get 10 uses out of each oof them and they all go dull or snap i dont care cause i still only paid 50 cents for each of them...

Some of the mills and other things probably follow the same rule that i go by...They would be fine for occasional use but dont expect high precision. Dont expect to be able to make large/heavy cuts with them or everything to work right out of the box...it may require a little matinance....just be careful...
if it was me with the money i would investigate buying a used Bridgeport or similier....cause those last forever

[Mike Martus]

Check out KBC Tools for some quality equipment at school prices. They supply many vocational centers with name brand equipment.

They are a national organization.

[KenWittlief]

look around for equipment auctions too. Ive seen Bridgports go for $500 at shop-closing auctions.

Harbor Freight is a very unique store. Its like there is some disturbance in the time/space continuum when you walk through the doors

it feels like you are back in the '60s, cause that is the last time I was able to buy tools at those prices

and you run in there to pick up a pack of cutting wheels, or a spool of flux wire for your welder, when you walk out and look at your watch you have leaped 90 minutes into the future! Where did that 90 minutes go? I dont know.

Ive gotten some great stuff there, esp if you catch a sale - like my 4.5" angle grinder for $18. You put a cutting wheel on that baby and you could cut the roof off a car in less than 60 seconds.

Trailer hitches, welding tanks and name-brand welders, big things like engine stands and floor jacks - you pretty much gotta look things over like others have said. So far I have not had a problem with any of their brand-name tools and equipment.

[Dick Linn]

For a capable low-cost mill, the Lathemaster ZAY7045FG is not bad. Users generally seem to be pleased. http://www.lathemaster.com/MILLINGPRODUCTS.htm

Avoid round column mills.

The largest of the smaller Harbor Freight and Grizzly square-column mills aren't bad, and there's a ton of hobbyists out there if you need help. It is also relatively easy to retrofit as a CNC machine. They are supposedly made by the same company.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0463

Some people like this one, though quality can vary: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G3102

That said, I've decided I want quality and am finally looking at an Abene vertical/horizontal mill. I found a really good one for $4,500. and have a chance at another like it for just over $100, though it is missing the horizontal mill support arm. I may get it as a spare. These mills weigh around 2,800 pounds and make a Bridgeport look wimpy. The spindle motor is 6 HP and it supposedly has a built-in has anti-backlash mechanism so climbing cuts shouldn't be a problem. They have 3-axis power feed, too.

If you can get an old but good mill such as Gorton, Wells-Index, Cincinnati or the like you'll have something that will last. Bridgeports tend to be light and often get abused.

Originally Posted by dlavery

The answer to your question is that the only way to know for sure is to inspect the exact machine that you would be buying. Harbor Freight has been known to carry both higher-quality Rong Fu equipment and cheesy knock-off clones...
...if a company does not care enough about their business to even proofread their catalog copy to ensure that it is correct and error-free, then how likely are they to care about me as a customer?
-dave

I have to agree with this. As an alumnus of a team that has had years with access to Bridgeport's as well as years using only an ENCO (Model: 105-1117) mill, my opinion is that you should look at the mill in person before buying. Having said that, even though my teams ENCO mill is by no means a Bridgeport or CNC mill, I think it was more than adequate for the parts I made.
Incidentally, the ENCO 105-1117 is a round column mill. The only issue I ever had with the mill was that I had to open the pulley cowling to change a mill bit, and the vice that shipped with the mill broke in half after a year.

The specs. are identical to the ENCO mill I used, except the ENCO mill is lighter, and doesn't list specifics (though the ranges are the same) for speeds. Does that mean it's the same, or better, quality? You'll have to check at Harbor Freight to make sure it's not a knock-off.
Hope this helps.

-Mike

[lupjohn]

Originally Posted by Simon Strauss

Across this forum i have heard bad things about the quality of the hand tools sold on Harbor Freight and i was wondering if anyone had experience or insight into whether or not this applies to their larger products. My team is looking into purchasing this mill from them and want to know if it will be reliable(i expect a 2dollar hammer to fall apart not a 900$ mill) and worth our money.

Thanks,
Simon

Simon;
Check out this one instead from Harbor Freight or Grizzley as well.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93885
It has a dovetail colume and does not suffer from the same problem as round colume mills. An additional resource to check out is www.mini-lathe.com. The author has a wealth of details about HF small mills and lathes with shortcoming/strengths, setup, fixes, projects etc. He is just starting a review of the HF mill mentioned above and it looks very promising. I personally have the earlier HF minilathe and minimill. I have found them to be sturdy and well finished and fairly accurate. Actually I have had to learn much about machine tool setup and calibration anyway and this is an ideal low cost way to find out. By the way Mini-Lathe.com has many links to other sites to answer many of your questions as well. LRU

[George]

Hi,
Bad karma with harbor freight lately
(lost orders, back orders, missed deadlines, other stuff)
try harbor freight #40939
Well worth the extra $$
I have bought 3 so far and also a drill mill,
the knee mill is the best
have fun

Geo.

[J@GMFlint]

A couple years back we tried an HF mini-lathe, the smaller red model, for about $300-maybe $400. Unfortunately, it was pretty light duty and had plastic gears that didn't last very long at all so we took it back. If you were going to be doing small hobby work it would probably be OK, but FIRST shaft turning and gear/sprocket lightening were too much for it.
This past season we purchased a 3 in 1 machine from HF at a school discount -less tax it was about $400, retail was like $699 I think. This machine is much better suited to our FIRST applications and everything is belt-driven. However, I believe someone already mentioned that these machines should be handled somewhat lightly and use smaller cuts as they are not quite as robust as some of the higher quality- and more expensive - machines.
Also, SMITHY makes a nice 3 in 1 for about $2500 that can be upgraded very nicely depending of your desires -and funds! I've been looking at- and dreaming of one for my own personal use for a while now.

http://www.smithy.com/MWdefault.htm

[Dick Linn]

You can get some deals on used 3-in-1 machines because people are generally disappointed with them. Grizzly used to have a small one that had a mill column that was removeable. Someone sold the base separately, so you could end up with two machines. It was the same as the mid-size Harbor Freight mini mill (all were produced by Sieg Industries: http://www.siegind.com/ ). Unfortunately, I don't see it listed at present. It was a pretty good deal.

If you want something used, check out the For Sale section at http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ You might want to list what you want and maybe someone has something. I learned of the Abene mills there. Someone I know from another forum bought one because he thought I would want it, so now I have to go to Rochester, NY to get my $100. mill All 2,800 pounds of it

There's a lot of info here on various equipment types: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/

Some people prefer to get machines from Grizzly.com instead of Harbor Freight because of better customer service and parts availability. Grizzly's machines may be a bit better in quality even if they come from the same source in China.

[rswsmay]

If you go into purchasing any tools or equipment from HF, you will be hit-or-miss with the quality. You can't beat using your senses with their products (looking, touching, listening) to determine suitability, quality, materials used, etc. You can pick up some deals or dogs there... it just depends.

I purchased one of the HF mini-mills last year knowing in advance that I would have to do a few upgrades to increase its reliability and usability. Even with these upgrades which totaled up to about $130, I still felt I had a good deal on a solid machine which would be able to mill the parts I needed. BTW.... I got it for $100 off so I figured I came out ahead.

The previously mentioned issue about the plastic gears on the HF mini-lathe is a long known nefarious issue with their mini-mills and mini-lathes. As an option, Micro-mark puts out a version of the same basic mini-mill with metal gears. My preference however is for the belt drive conversion I installed because it eliminates the gear noise, widens the speed range and no more stripped gears. I believe it also improved my ability to mill more material on each pass without the machine bogging down, overloading the motor, or again.. stripping gears.

The best I can tell you is to research the product as much as you can prior to making your purchase. Even if you going to the store to look at the product, most people would not know that plastic gears are used on the mini-mill/lathes and that this is an item needing almost constant repair. For their larger mills, lathes, mills/drills, etc., just do a network search on the product to see what experience people have had with reliability, repairs, quality, accuracy, etc.