Amish Shooting

[Mike]

I'm sure the majority of you are aware of the recent Amish school shooting, in which a non-Amish dairy truck driver executed a group of school girls.

I just read a very inspiring Reuters Article with some more details on the shooting.

...
Rita Rhoads, a nurse-midwife who delivered 13-year-old Marian Fisher as well as another victim, said Fisher appealed to Charles Carl Roberts to shoot her first because she thought it might allow younger girls to survive.
...
Fisher's 11-year-old sister, Barbie, appealed to Roberts to shoot her next, Rhoads said. Barbie survived and was in Children's Hospital of Philadelphia recovering from shoulder, hand and leg injuries."Barbie has been talking and she said Marian said, 'Shoot me first,'" Rhoads said. "Apparently what she was trying to do was to save the younger girls."

...

A thirteen and eleven year old girl offered their life to save others!

Whatever the Amish are doing to raise their children, the rest of the world needs to take note of.

[Katie Hans]

I saw something about that on the news. An investigator was saying that there was a sign in the schoolhouse that said something along the lines of "visitors give us joy", which makes the whole situation even sadder.

I can't even begin to imagine how scared the girls were - not to mention offering to be shot so that the other girls would be spared. I can't imagine how hard that decision would be, sacrificing yourself at that age with your entire life ahead of you, so that someone else can live. It seems that nearly everyone else these days are so willing to take someone else's life so that they can continue theirs - it's not very often you see things happen the opposite way. It kind of makes me feel guilty about dwelling so much on personal issues when one choice could change everything.

Apparently some of the families whose girls were killed invited the family of the man who shot them to mourn with them at the funeral. That's what I found inspiring. That a family so traumatized would still be able to reach out to another family suffering a loss, even if the member of the other family was what caused everyone's reason for sadness.

[JaneYoung]

When I was 37, I wanted to learn to quilt. An Amish woman taught me in her classroom. I was surrounded by young girls beginning with the age of 4 up through 7 who were in the classroom working on their quilts that were in various stages: piecing, basting, and applying the binding. There was a row of 9 treadle sewing machines that the older children and the teacher used to apply the binding to their quilts. The machines would whir with their feet pumping the treadles as fast as could be - only the 6 and 7 year olds were allowed to use those machines. During the class, the 4 year olds would approach me with a suggestion on how to clean up my points (stars) and to encourage me. When it came time for the treadle machine, my feet went up/down up/down very slowly - as they whirred away and giggled behind their hands at my awkwardness. Finally, they kindly offered to keep my quilt and binding until my next class and they applied it for me.

At a very young age, these girls learn responsibility to their community and self accountability. They would see the decision made as the right thing to do in their quiet way.

[KenWittlief]

this terrible event has generated a lot of discussions on the topics of guns and violence and schools.

A couple years ago there was a robbery at my credit union. Two customers were shot, one died. If I had not been on jury duty that day its likely I would have been there at that exact time.

Which caused me to spend a great deal of time thinking: If you are in a situation where someone is armed and threating to harm or kill people, what should you do?

I know that many gas station and convience stores have a policy of non-resistance. Give the robber what they want and dont resist. But those situations are unique, at a convience store they are after money.

But at other places, schools, offices, public buildings - if they are not after money they have other intentions.

I know this is a very difficult topic, but if you ever find yourself in that situation you wont have time to think things over, you must decide beforehand how you will react.

I know what I will do.

[DotCom]

Yeah, these girls are very inspiring. I bet if I were in their position, my first thought would be to stay alive, not to give up my life. That type of selflessness is hard to come by these days...

[Bill_Hancoc]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

I know that many gas station and convience stores have a policy of non-resistance. Give the robber what they want and dont resist. But those situations are unique, at a convience store they are after money.

My old job had this policy in the employee handbook. just a side note

Originally Posted by Katie Hans

I can't even begin to imagine how scared the girls were - not to mention offering to be shot so that the other girls would be spared. I can't imagine how hard that decision would be, sacrificing yourself at that age with your entire life ahead of you, so that someone else can live. It seems that nearly everyone else these days are so willing to take someone else's life so that they can continue theirs - it's not very often you see things happen the opposite way. It kind of makes me feel guilty about dwelling so much on personal issues when one choice could change everything.

Not to be parade rainer just to point out different view point...When the girl made the decision to do this i dont think that she knew what she was doing...not to say it wasnt a selfless act and she shouldnt be commended for her actions, but it is somethign that at a young age i dont think you could fully understand the consequences of that action...yes im sure she knew she was going to be killed by offering to have her life taken so others could live but it may not have been a fully "conscience" act. I just dont think that at the ages of 13 and 11 that they fully understand death and its consequences...im not saying that i do either, it is something that is learned with age and experiance.

[RoboMom]

I worked as a nurse with the Old Order Amish in PA for 2 years. I had respected Amish women from the community accompany me for home visits, to introduce me and so I could actually find the farms. I was given an opportunity not usually granted to "English" to meet many wonderful people in their homes who were so grateful for any thing I was able to help them with. I was treated with respect wherever I went (and fed constantly) because I respected their values. I have so many stories.

These people just want to be left alone. For the most part, they hate being a tourist attraction.

Bill, I disagree. I do think the 13 year old knew death and the consequences. Death is not hidden in this culture and anyone who has grown up on a farm knows that life and death are everywhere. What is usually absent is any violence. These small children would have never seen TV, or a gun or have been yelled at. As Jane said, their actions even at a young age reflect what is good for the community and self-lessness.

My heart just aches.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by RoboMom

... These small children would have never seen TV, or a gun ....

I was wondering about this. Do the people in this community hunt? Do the farmers have rifles to protect their livestock from wild animals (fox in the chicken coop...) ?

When I took law enforcement training (in the Coast Guard) one aspect of human nature that came up: many people think a gun has the power to instantly take a life. Depending on the type of gun that is almost never the case. With a small caliber gun you can be shot several times and survive.

We learned that, in a standoff, in many cases you are better off trying to run, or to resist and fight back, even if the other person has a gun and you dont.

For example, you are in a parking lot at the mall. Someone pulls up in a van and points a gun and you and tells you to get in the van. If they intend to kill you and you comply then you have no chance. If you run and scream for help, chances are they might shoot you once in the arm or leg (as you are fleeing), and since you are in a public place someone nearby will hear the shots and call 911. Or if you struggle with the person and you are wounded, your chances are better in a mall parking lot, than wherever that person intended to take you.

This is similar to the subplot of the 2nd Star Trek movie. Sometimes you find yourself in a no-win situation, and you have to recognize that, and respond accordingly. If something bad is going to happen you try to miminize the damage.

[JaneYoung]

Ken,
This happened in their school.
It happened in their community, their culture. They were violated.

I am reading that the issue of security is being looked at, but that it would compromise their beliefs. They abhor violence of any kind.

Jane

[Jack Jones]

It doesn’t surprise me that there are ChiefDelphians who are impressed that some of those girls graciously accepted their demise. Nor am I surprised that other CDers imagine some kind of hero coming to the rescue. What I am surprised about is the kinds of things on which we choose to dwell. Even more surprising are the kinds of things our moderators allow, and those that they do not.

If there were an Amish FIRST team (imagine that), then this thread would not have gotten off the ground. I ask you what’s the difference? Please treat the victims with some respect and refrain from ghoulish speculation.

[KenWittlief]

I have absolute respect and admiration for the beliefs, faith and dedication the Amish people have for their way of life. Every person has the right to choose their own lifestyle, and they will experience both the rewards and consequences for the path they decide to follow.

I recognize the young lady in that school house acted within the scope of her religious and personal beliefs. I hope it is acceptable to say that, what was the right course of action for her may not be the right response for everyone else, without being disrespectful in any way.

[Jack Jones]

In my opinion the facts are these. The Amish just want to be left alone. We should respect that; even when there is no chance they will ever know what we suppose. On the other hand, the kinds of sub-humans that perpetrate these atrocities do so to get attention. We should deny them that! I’m sure that FOX and CNN will ride the story as long as it has legs; and then the copycats will crave to get their 15 minutes. Do we on CD really need to participate? Do you want the next shooter to come from your school to here to see if he/she finally got our attention?

[KenWittlief]

for every crazy person with a gun there are thousands and thousands of people ready and willing to devote their lives to help others.

I was very touched by the fact that many people from the Amish community attended the funeral of the gunman, and not to dance on his grave, but to offer support and kindness to his family. They recognized the man was very disturbed and sick, and that he destroyed the lives of his own family as well as the lives of others.

The outpouring from the nation has been incredible. From todays news:

Amish community leaders issued a statement Tuesday thanking emergency workers for their help and outsiders for their support and donations.

"...The whole community, Amish and others, were horrified and shocked that such evil could be done to the most innocent members of our peaceful community," the statement said.

More than $700,000 has been contributed to a fund that will go toward medical bills and other expenses, including modifying homes and schools to accommodate the surviving girls' needs, they said.

"Each act of kindness, the prayers and every gift, small or large, comfort us and assure us that our spirits will heal even though the painful loss will always be with us."

[KenWittlief]

from todays news

all I can say is WOW!

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a...00010000000001