Interacter Charger

[Jimmy Holmes]

There has been much of discussion about batteries and chargers. We know from experience that losing power in the last 30 seconds of a match is heart breaking.

We had read some of the great posts and ideas about keeping your batteries at tip-top shape. We also saw the post about chargers from Interacter.
Seen here:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...attery+charger

We did some research about the chargers and decided to buy the X5 model. It is a bank of 5 chargers all in one unit with just one power cord to plug in.

http://www.batteryweb.com/interacter.cfm

So far we are very happy with the unit. We will be putting it through its paces and give you and update.

It can be found at: http://www.interacter.com/X5_page.htm

I have also posted a picture of our setup.
Feel free to ask any questions

Team 27
Team RUSH

[DonRotolo]

Just keep in mind the 2006 rule:

<R52> The EX18-12 or ES18-12 Battery may only be charged by a 6 Ampere rated Automatic Battery Charger
between matches. When recharging the Kit batteries, you may use the charger provided by FIRST or an
automatic charger with an equivalent charging current rating.

While this may change for 2007, it is unlikely. If the X5 charger you selected meets this rule - specifically, not more than 6 Amps per charging circuit - you are fine. If not, you need to do something.

Don

[Jimmy Holmes]

This charger setup is a 6amp. It is basically just a bank of five 6amp chargers with one power cord to worry about. From our research we think this charger setup will fit our needs nicely.

Thanks for the heads up though, some times rules can be missed when you see something new and exciting.

Team RUSH

[eugenebrooks]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Holmes

This charger setup is a 6amp. It is basically just a bank of five 6amp chargers with one power cord to worry about. From our research we think this charger setup will fit our needs nicely.

Thanks for the heads up though, some times rules can be missed when you see something new and exciting.

Team RUSH

We have used one of these chargers for the past two years. At the San Jose regional last year, the X5 kept up with the charging needs of our entire three team alliance through the last match of the finals. If FIRST were to decrease the per-battery current limit for 2007, an unlikely event, we would just hack the current sense circuit in the charger to reduce the maximum current. The X5 is a great charger with useful charge state indicators. Remember to put a set of Anderson connectors on it. You don't want to be dealing with all those exposed alligator clips if they go after each other.

[Gdeaver]

This post points out how unlimited the power for robots has been. What First needs to do is limit the energy for our robots and make us think of energy management. Energy management and conservation are being forced on our country. May be they should be forced on our robots too.

[Andy A.]

I am curious.

What kind of current load does that put on the 120volt mains supply? In the unlikely event that it were to be charging 5 batteries at full current, it would be outputting 30 amps at 12 volts DC. I don't know what kind of efficiencies are involved with the rectifiers, but I'm guessing that the load on the mains is high.

I'm just always mortified at the thought of blowing a breaker at a regional. It happens here at college from time to time, and the offending residents are usually heckled and picked on for killing power to their circuit. It's like some nerd faux-pas. I have no idea what kind of circuit protection is used at these venues. Which raises another interesting question- just what does a venues electrical bill look like during a competition?

I doubt its a real problem, but I've always been curious about how much load we put on the pit electrical systems. Between the battery chargers, cordless drill batteries, laptops, drill presses and all the other power hungry stuff we use in the pits, its got to add up to something.

-Andy A.

[Phalanx]

As I have read over the X5, it actually is made up of 5 charging units and you have the choice of 3 different series.

The IC Series Industrial-Commercial 3-Stage + Desulfate. 20A to 30A
The PS Series Professional - Series 3-Stage + Desulfate. 3A to 30A
The LS Series Lineage - Consumers 3-Stage - 2.5A to 6.0A

It's obvious that the IC Series isn't applicable or suitable for usage in FIRST.

So the question is which of the other 2 series would you want and why?
LS 12/6 or the PS 12/5

I'm thinking the LS 12/6 units within the X5, then maybe having one or two standalone PS 12/5 units for usage with "questionable" batteries. I like the idea of Desulfate, but I'm not sure it's worth it for all 5, and if the battery is really that questionable might it not be better to just replace it?

Any or all feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[eugenebrooks]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

As I have read over the X5, it actually is made up of 5 charging units and you have the choice of 3 different series.

The IC Series Industrial-Commercial 3-Stage + Desulfate. 20A to 30A
The PS Series Professional - Series 3-Stage + Desulfate. 3A to 30A
The LS Series Lineage - Consumers 3-Stage - 2.5A to 6.0A

It's obvious that the IC Series isn't applicable or suitable for usage in FIRST.

So the question is which of the other 2 series would you want and why?
LS 12/6 or the PS 12/5

It was not a hard choice for us, the 5 amp PS charger cost about 50% more than the 6 amp LS charger, and when you put 5 of them in an X5, the money adds up. We also wanted the full six amps that FIRST allows. As a reminder to the reader, don't use a charger that supplies more than 6 amps on your robot batteries. I have seen batteries overheat doing this. This is a very dangerous thing to have happen.

Technically, the difference between the PS and the LS series is in the state of charge indicator, a battery type switch, and the desufate unit, in addition to the different current limit.

The desulfate unit is not very relevant to a gel cell that has a very low self discharge rate. Just charge the battery right after use, and always store it fully charged, and you will be rewarded with a long life. The desulfate unit is more relevant for flooded cells, and studies have shown an improved battery life in heavy use such as forklifts, but I have never seen any advantage on flooded deep cycle batteries used for sporadic trolling, but that is straying from the topic at hand. We test our batteries with a 20 amp load to 11 volts prior to every event, and our best battery is a 2004 battery at this point. This was just a good year for FIRST kit batteries, all of our batteries get good treatment.

The battery type switch changes the adsorption and float voltage between values suitable for gel and flooded batteries. This would be more important if the battery were to be left on the charger for long periods, and proper gel settings do improve charger performance, but we only leave a battery on the charger overnight, and then store the battery.

The led bar current gauge of the PS series would be nicer than the {full, >80%, <80%} indicators of the LS series, but we have not had to resort to batteries below the 80% level, so it has not mattered to us.

The extra amp at a lower cost has been our most important factor.

Eugene

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

Just keep in mind the 2006 rule:

While this may change for 2007, it is unlikely. If the X5 charger you selected meets this rule - specifically, not more than 6 Amps per charging circuit - you are fine. If not, you need to do something.

In addition, teams should be cautious about buying any expensive supplies and/or tools in anticipation of a specific component being included (or not included) in the 2007 Kit Of Parts. The contents of the Kit do change from year to year. There is no guarantee that any specific charger will be (or not be) compatible with whatever is included with the KOP that is unveiled in January. If you have limited funds and cannot afford to purchase more than one set of something, you may want to wait until you find out EXACTLY what items are included in the 2007 KOP, and what the rules are regarding their use. Once the rules are unveiled in January, you will still have plenty of time to purchase items that will not see real use until the competition season begins in March.

-dave

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I agree with Dave, above. We did purchase a 5 way charger that works well. A word of caution, as mentioned above the input current rises with a x5 charger as well the heat output. Allow plenty of free air to circulate around the larger charger especially at events.

[Phalanx]

Thank you everyone for your input, knowledge, experience, advice and suggestions.

I've learned something new on this topic.

The X5 may be out of our budget for right at the moment, possibly for this entire season, but likely I'll wait until after kick off to be sure, and then see.

Thank you Everyone

[eugenebrooks]

Originally Posted by dlavery

If you have limited funds and cannot afford to purchase more than one set of something, you may want to wait until you find out EXACTLY what items are included in the 2007 KOP, and what the rules are regarding their use. Once the rules are unveiled in January, you will still have plenty of time to purchase items that will not see real use until the competition season begins in March.
-dave

Sound advice. The X5 charger is a custom build at the factory,
but there is no need to order it prior to knowing the rules for a given
year. We ordered ours near the end of the build period several years
ago, and the vendor got it to us in less than two weeks. I would
expect that would be the case now.

[Jimmy Holmes]

We totally agree about knowing what is in the KOP before buying items.

We give many presentations throughout the year and this will help keep our batteries charged for the long ones. Also, when we practice this should help keep up with the demand. We hate to waste precious practice time waiting for chargers to do their job