Open Challenge: Make a better FRC ranking algorithm

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I don't believe there is a FIRST team that doesn't already strive to get better and better each year though. ...

A system like this isn't "leveling the playing field", it's rigging it against the historically successful teams.


I don't particularly think that the current system is broken. ...

have you ever been on a team, or worked with a team that had six HS students and only one teacher for a mentor? A team that had nothing but a couple handtools, and ended up building their robot out of PVC pipes and plywood?

Do they have any chance against teams with $100k in funding, an huge corporate sponsor, and ten engineer mentors? Seriously? No. At best they end up trying not to be in the bottom 5 of the ranking at a regional.

We keep telling students that engineering is all about what happens between your ears, how well you following the design cycle / process, how well you think things through

but the competition is already rigged, its rigged in favor of the big veteran teams that have lots of resources

that doenst mean that little 7 person team didnt try just as hard as everyone else. They may have pulled 48 hour weekends, and worked all year to raise funds. They may have been excellent in their design process, but you can only do so much with PVC and plywood against teams with CNC machines, a full scale machine shop, and a team of mentors at your disposal.

Go back to my example of sailing. I may never be able to buy an F40 catamaran (40 foot hulls), but I do have a 16 foot hobie cat. If I can sail my boat to its absolute limit, then why shouldnt I be able to compete in an open class event, against the 40 foot cats. I will never be able to sail faster then they can, but that doenst mean I am not the best sailer.

Sailing commitees came up with a rating /handicap system that allows exactly that - open class competition, where each skipper has a chance to win an event if they are the best sailor, with the boat they have.

We already have open class competition, but the way things are now the little guy has no real chance.

So why cant we come up with a scoring / ranking system for events in which all teams have some hope of placing well? Is it too hard for us to figure out?

What causes far more upsets and hard feelings is, as was said before, the alliance algorithm.

Our team has seen both ends of the problem. We've had phenomenal matching with 90% of matches with at least one strong robot, placed high accordingly, but perhaps not deserved the position.

Inversly, we've had regionals where every match seems like a disadvantage- and often is...

this is another problem that a well devised handicap system would fix. If you are allied with a small team that historically has not done well, or with a small rookie team, they would have a higher handicap rating, that would tend to even out the match.