Number of Matches at the Championship

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

For those teams who perform consistently at the same level, seven matches are plenty to accurately determine their ranking.

I don't entirely agree with this. Due to alliance partners, there are factors which teams can't control. Regardless of how good your robot is, a 1v3 match is next to impossible to win. I know for a fact that our robot consistently malfunctioned to the point where most of our alliance partners were playing 2v3 matches at best. If you have more matches, those sorts of factors even themselves out, and the robots who are the best do end up on top.

If you have fewer matches, such as the 7 at championships, one or two matches with malfunctioning or no-show alliance partners can mean the difference between a top 8 seed and the middle of the pack, regardless of how perfectly your own robot preformed.

This does again reinforce the importance of scouting. There is no reason such a robot should not be picked for eliminations, but given the limited number of matches, they would probably end up lower ranked that they might deserve.

That said, I don't see any resonable way to increase the number of matches at championships short of making in longer.

[efoote868]

in response to the 9 matches at a time, i think you're forgetting the practice fields. (they don't use as much stuff, but its still a field, and 5 fields for competition, 4 fields for practice, right?)

I'd like to see einstein's field be used, instead of just blank for the entire time. Also there could be another field squeezed in... which leaves an interesting idea... Wildcard matches. Teams would be randomly (er... yeah) picked to play against each other, from all divisions. These would be played on the new field and on einstein. That would be pretty fun.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by efoote868

I'd like to see einstein's field be used, instead of just blank for the entire time.

It is used. FLL is run on it.

[Daisy]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

I don't entirely agree with this. Due to alliance partners, there are factors which teams can't control. .....

Scouting, scouting, scouting. In an ideal world, if a team scouts effectively, with a good system, then seven matches should be about enough.

Where else are they going to put more fields? 4 Divisions, another is for VEX, another is for FLL. Georgia dome has room for 6, I think.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Daisy

Scouting, scouting, scouting. In an ideal world, if a team scouts effectively, with a good system, then seven matches should be about enough.

Where else are they going to put more fields? 4 Divisions, another is for VEX, another is for FLL. Georgia dome has room for 6, I think.

The dome could easily fit 2 more fields. There's a massive amount of empty space in the middle that could be minimized with a rearrangement of the fields.

Doesn't really matter though, because the limiting factor is radio channels.

[Lil' Lavery]

More fields=more radio channels, more space, more game pieces, more vounteers (including the specialised and skilled volunteers such as head refs, FTAs, etc.), less time to repair your robots, etc.
As it is, it takes a minimum of 20 matches to win the championship event (7 qualification, 6 divisional elims, 4 Einstein elims). Adding more spells problems for ANY robot, especially after the wear and tear of regionals beforehand.
Any veteran team will tell you, sucess recquires ALOT more than just a good robot too. Scouting is a key factor, especially in detemining your elimination partners. Marketing, in being able to get the elimination partners you want. A top notch pit crew, in keeping your robot running.
And finally, more matches would mean more time travelling between the dome and the pits, which is long enough as it is. Unlike regionals, where the robot will leave the pits for about 10-15 minuets, and sometimes as few as 6 or 7 if you cut it close, around each match, it can take almost a half hour before your robot returns to the pits from a match during championship (counting the time it leaves both before and after the match). More matches would mean almost no time to repair your bot.

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

More fields=more radio channels, more space, more game pieces, more vounteers (including the specialised and skilled volunteers such as head refs, FTAs, etc.), less time to repair your robots, etc.
As it is, it takes a minimum of 20 matches to win the championship event (7 qualification, 6 divisional elims, 4 Einstein elims). Adding more spells problems for ANY robot, especially after the wear and tear of regionals beforehand.
Any veteran team will tell you, sucess recquires ALOT more than just a good robot too. Scouting is a key factor, especially in detemining your elimination partners. Marketing, in being able to get the elimination partners you want. A top notch pit crew, in keeping your robot running.
And finally, more matches would mean more time travelling between the dome and the pits, which is long enough as it is. Unlike regionals, where the robot will leave the pits for about 10-15 minuets, and sometimes as few as 6 or 7 if you cut it close, around each match, it can take almost a half hour before your robot returns to the pits from a match during championship (counting the time it leaves both before and after the match). More matches would mean almost no time to repair your bot.

Our team has a philosophy that says every student gets to touch the bot. Whenever we ship the bot at least half of them know the robot in and out. Out of that the drives know the most about the bot and the job of the lead of each system kind of tells the drivers what to look for if errors happen etc etc. In most situations our drivers can take care of almost anything they need to from re-crimping a lead all the way to re-wrapping a wire. In the past year I only remember changes happening in the pit when we had enough time to.

I believe that if every team educated their drivers about their robots, than it would be much easier. I think it is crucial for the drivers (including the human player) that are on the field with the robot the most, know how to fix the most basic robot adjustments. That being said I believe the second part of your argument is flawed due to the lack of experience of the average drivers (from what you said), so now I get to make my argument.

I think that it is perfectly reasonable to add the new fields if any. I think one more would be prime and that Einstein would take a little longer but possible nonetheless. I think that even though it would take a little bit longer that it could make more matches more

Since USUALLY most repairs are minor, that if our teams trained our drivers during or after the break and that the drivers could do most of the simple stuff than it would be MUCH more possible to make more matches.

EDIT: To help with the scouting issue, at the LSR there was a scouting database. If we assigned a few people from teams than we could EASILY team up with very accurate scouting information. It would be just as easy and for the teams with more than 7 people, (6 for watching matches and one scribe compiling all of the data on a computer), to spare it would be a breeze for more accurate scouting.


Pavan.

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Originally Posted by Daisy

Scouting, scouting, scouting. In an ideal world, if a team scouts effectively, with a good system, then seven matches should be about enough.

Where else are they going to put more fields? 4 Divisions, another is for VEX, another is for FLL. Georgia dome has room for 6, I think.

Ok, the scouting is what helps you get the stats. You dont need to have the best record to be considered good.
After seeing the GTR last year and seeing 2 fields going almost simulatiously and having to have only 6 ppl scouting between 2 fields and getting good information, i would have to say that more matches would only cause for more time not needed.

The better teams will always win the competition. i.e. 1114 & 1503 at the 2 regionals we went to. 1114 did have the top spot, but 1503 was not second. You could have a bad record but if you get picked by a team that needs your abilities then it really doesnt matter.

[Nuttyman54]

For the record, I was not trying to downplay scouting. If anything, my argument helps justify the need for scouting. What I was really trying to say is that the best robots may not be RANKED at the top. This does not mean they're not great robots, and it does not mean that they're less likely to get picked. What it means is that the number of matches is too low to accurately rank all robots.

[AV_guy007]

what if we were to add another day to championships that would give the possibility to have more matches.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by AV_guy007

what if we were to add another day to championships that would give the possibility to have more matches.

Figure out a solution to getting the funds to rent the Dome and GWCC for another day (which can't be cheap), staff the fields (which isn't cheap, as we volunteers tend to be awful hungry), pay the extra hotel room nights for the hundreds of teams, and persuade the hundreds of schools and employers to let their students and mentors go for an extra day, and we'll call it a deal.