On photographs and FVC competitions...

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

I made the mistake of posting a picture of the finals at the Toronto championship with our robot and 1114's in the background. Tyler had the picture taken down which was my mistake for posting in the first place.

I wasn't going to pipe up on this thread, but... Wow. I totally respect 1114's decision not to publish pictures on their part, but I fail to see what right they would have to disallow others from posting pictures of their robot. I hope I am misinterpreting what you said here. Even requesting that a picture be withdrawn because it shows their robot seems like it's crossing a line to me.

The way I see it, once you've demonstrated your machine in public you can't try to keep the lid on it anymore. Like I said, if they don't wish to post pictures, more power to them, but anyone else who was there and feels like posting pictures should feel free to (in my opinion).

[Barry Bonzack]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

The way I see it, once you've demonstrated your machine in public you can't try to keep the lid on it anymore. Like I said, if they don't wish to post pictures, more power to them, but anyone else who was there and feels like posting pictures should feel free to (in my opinion).

It is my belief that everyone has knowledge because it was taught to them by a mentor figure; this means it is one's responsibility to then pass on that knowledge to some one else. The builders of the FVC 1114 robot at some point must have been taught these skills by friends, family, or mentors, therefore no knowledge should be kept secret because it was not kept secret from them. Our robots are not out for money here in FIRST which is why copyright laws do not apply. 1114 is a respectable team in many aspects, their robot has competed in public, and its whatever pictures have been taken can be used to inspire new ways of thinking in other students that have not been taught by mentors. This is how technology advances.

[Jonathan Norris]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

I wasn't going to pipe up on this thread, but... Wow. I totally respect 1114's decision not to publish pictures on their part, but I fail to see what right they would have to disallow others from posting pictures of their robot. I hope I am misinterpreting what you said here. Even requesting that a picture be withdrawn because it shows their robot seems like it's crossing a line to me.

I can see what you are getting at, but you got to remember the difference between FVC and FRC here. If it was after a FRC competition, as I said before, I would not think twice. But this being a FVC competition where there is time for teams to study other robots designs and implements portions of them for future competitions. I feel that if a very (extreemly) successful robot like 1114 decides not to share their design with the world that is totally acceptable.

Let me relate this more to FRC, throughout the season I tend to study and observe as many robot designs as I can. But, because it is FRC is it very difficult to implement some of the great design characteristics i have studied during the season. Usually what most teams will attempt to do is work on an off-season prototype to test out some of the new designs they have encountered during the previous season. Which is something we are doing, building a tank drive system, 1114 being one of the teams who we have referenced for design ideas. However, even in FRC new designs are implemented based off other robots designs. Look at the 2005 game, where it seemed like 90% of the capping teams ended up using a variation of a T-bar design to manipulate the tetras. Even a team like 330, the beach bots, who had a very successful ball manipulation mechanism, which i remember distinctly from the Sacramento regional that year, moved on to another variation of the T-bar design.

My point here is that 1114 has this game figured out, and right now is not the time yet for them to be sharing their design. If they do now there will be imitators, and that is not in the spirit of FIRST. Its too bad for the community that because of the nature of FVC that we will all have to wait till after the championships to learn from their design.

edit:

(Or did you twist Jonathan's arm to get that photo to disappear?)

haha no twisting required, as you can (hopefully) see I understand where they are coming from.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

I wasn't going to pipe up on this thread, but... Wow. I totally respect 1114's decision not to publish pictures on their part, but I fail to see what right they would have to disallow others from posting pictures of their robot. I hope I am misinterpreting what you said here. Even requesting that a picture be withdrawn because it shows their robot seems like it's crossing a line to me.

The way I see it, once you've demonstrated your machine in public you can't try to keep the lid on it anymore. Like I said, if they don't wish to post pictures, more power to them, but anyone else who was there and feels like posting pictures should feel free to (in my opinion).

Just to clarify, Team 1114 has decided not to post pictures of their Vex robot until after the Championships in Atlanta. The team is definitely not trying to control the publishing of photos by others. This would both be foolish and out of line. Anyone who has a picture has every right to upload it as they wish.

[MrForbes]

thanks! (I already found the site....but now everyone else can see it too)

And thanks for your hard work putting on the Tournament!

[MrForbes]

I've watched my sons learn about Vex over the past year, going from knowing nothing about it at all, to being able to build a competitive robot. In between was a LOT of playing...I can't call it anything else....starting with a modest goal, building something to see if it can accomplish the goal, and redesigning and rebuilding over and over to fix each weakness. The school robotics club started fall 2005 as real rookies, they bought a few Vex kits and had small friendly competitions among themselves. We also bought a couple kits for our family, and the boys worked with them as they felt the desire. The club bought more kits, and put on two Vex robotics camps over the summer, which I think really helped teach them the principles of design--the best way to really learn something is by teaching others!

So, look over the pictures, but realize that the only way to really get good at it is to try and try again, expecting to make mistakes and learn from them.