Riveting up a frame

[Starke]

I know that 1126 rivets their aluminum frame together instead of welding it. Right Dylan?

[FourPenguins]

We riveted our upper frame last year (1/8" aluminum riveted w/ 1/8" aluminum rivets) and it worked pretty well, but as someone already mentioned, rivets don't take heavy shock well.
Also, repairs can be a bit tricky. We found that in most cases it's easier and faster to add more rivets than to replace the old ones, which is fine if you're using small rivets, but on the kit frame, you'd need some big ones. (We didn't rivet our drive base.)

[Gdeaver]

Team 104 has used 1/4" steel rivets with back up washers since 2001 except the stack attack when we tried a 8020 frame. We have never had a riveted joint fail. For 2006 we bolted the kit chaise together and when the design became fixed backed up the bolts with rivets. We built up the kit frame with 1" 6061-t6 angle. The frame worked just fine.

[IndySam]

Team 1501 uses a frame completely made from sheet aluminum and pop rivets. You will not find a stronger frame.

http://www.huntingtonrobotics.org/

[Viper37]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Team 1501 uses a frame completely made from sheet aluminum and pop rivets. You will not find a stronger frame.

http://www.huntingtonrobotics.org/

Im pretty sure welded steel is a bit stronger...



As for rivets, I would use them in the less vital area's, but not for heavy frame rails. They dont react to shock very well, and could also reak havok on the field with wheels and drivetrains if some were to come loose.

Just my 2 cents. If you can make it work you get a High 5.

[clean399]

I am from a team where we usually only rivet our robot no welding. We have never had rivets break if you use the aircraft quality. these can take up to 26,000 lbs of shear force, only cost a couple dollars for a 1/4 lbs of them, and come in varying sizes. We find it is also safer than welding because we the students do almost all of the work. These are not pop-rivets though if that was what you were referring to.

[Viper37]

Why cant students weld?

[clean399]

Most students we can trust to do work like that but there is those few who don't know when joking around should not be done. Also riveting is a lot easier to learn how to do rather than welding.

[Viper37]

Originally Posted by clean399

Most students we can trust to do work like that but there is those few who don't know when joking around should not be done. Also riveting is a lot easier to learn how to do rather than welding.

Personally, I find it alot easier to lay a bead then riveting, but to each his own.

and who cares if it works.

[JessR]

We have aluminum pop riveted some assemblies with excellent results.
A good design practice is to use a splice plate or gusset plate at connections between two structural members & install multiple rivets in each member.
For instance at a right angle connection between two tubes, put a triangular gusset top & bottom with 4 rivets thru the gusset plates into each tube.
This also spreads the load over a larger area of the frame tubes, reducing the likelyhood of exceeding material yield at a single concentrated point if using one rivet.
A 3/16 rivet is the same size as a #10 screw. Holes are easy to drill and they are plenty strong for anything on a FIRST robot if using multiple rivets at a joint.

1/8 rivet are great for adding small plates for limit switches etc. or reinforcing structures after it's all bolted together.

[Paul Copioli]

We used rivets in 2005 and 2006 and those were our best robots, by far. We used 1/8" aluminum rivets with aluminum mandrels in most places, but 1/8" aluminum rivets with steel mandrels in places where we could not use a lot of rivets, but needed strength. Our entire drive base, main structure and end of arm in 2005 were riveted sheet metal. Our entire drive base, tower, and shooter frame in 2006 were riveted sheet metal.

Anyone who says the rivets are not strong enough have either not used it, or implemented the rivets improperly. Strength to weight ratio is out of this world and I will race anyone changing out a component riveted together vs. bolted together. Our riveted components can be repaired and replaced much faster with rivets than with nuts and bolts.

Using 1/4" rivets in the kit frame should prove very effective. Also remember, you want to have a mechanical fuse when it comes to collisions. We usually do not have the weight to design our components against severe crashes/mishaps, but the rivets will break in key areas in order to save components.

[Dylan Gramlich]

Originally Posted by Starke340

I know that 1126 rivets their aluminum frame together instead of welding it. Right Dylan?

yeah thats correct we used rivets this year more then any previous year and we were quite happy with how it held up.

[Jeremytice]

I would have to agree with Dylan on this one.....we were really happy with the way our framae held up during all the matches. Our robot even got flipped over for the first time in finals at nationals and it still was in tact.

[jagman2882]

Originally Posted by Starke340

I know that 1126 rivets their aluminum frame together instead of welding it. Right Dylan?

we did use rivets but it was mostly in the upper frame around the shooter and such...i dont think that we would ever use them on the driveframe...but i think that they did hold up quite well. but again you must be careful where they are place and the amount of stress.

[Peter Matteson]

177 Uses POP rivets in similar ways to what Paul said above for 217. We also use solid aircraft rivets installed with a pnuematic hammer and bucking bar in application where higher shear strength is needed or if we need the rivet to be flat headed. We have made arms capable of lifting a robot of the ground this way using aircraft construction methods. Needless to say we believe the strength is there.

A word of advice if you plan on using big diameter rivets is to get a pneumatic tool for installation. Particularly if you use a lot of them.

Just a general comment, we find a mixture of joining using welding, rivets, rivnuts, and nut/bolt fastening depending on the application gives us the best solution for the problem. Don't rule out any of these methods unless you are not properly equipped to do them.