Disappointment: Autodesk awards 2007

[Beth Sweet]

Originally Posted by RoboJedi75

My main question is why?

.

Perhaps I can pose one reason for why they may have done this.

1504 has been competing for 2 years now. We have never created an animation, nor have we (at least that I know of) ever voted for one. We never had anyone who knew enough about them who felt competant to judge. Now, if you go by that line of logic (with the understanding that less than half of the teams at any given regional will submit an animation), you have only a couple (I think that I've heard of regionals with less than 5 submissions) of animations being judged by a very few people.
Perhaps FIRST thought it better to let the few animations that do exist all be judged by professionals?

On the same note, it is kind of saddening that they will only be judged at the Championships. This will be our first year submitting and I think that this policy will discourage many teams from even putting forth the effort.

So the solution? Up to each individual. If you feel strongly, talk to other team members and write a letter to FIRST expressing your team's dismay at the new policy. Remember to be polite and courteous in your expressing, saying "you beeeeeeeeeeeep that's not beeeeeeeeeeeeeping fair" won't help (as I've seen many a CDer do in the past when angry).

Best of luck to those of you hoping to change the policy!

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

We never had anyone who knew enough about them who felt competant to judge. Now, if you go by that line of logic (with the understanding that less than half of the teams at any given regional will submit an animation), you have only a couple (I think that I've heard of regionals with less than 5 submissions) of animations being judged by a very few people.

I believe the regional awards were voted on by peer animators. (i.e., Only the teams which submitted animations were allowed to vote, and a team could not vote for themself.) Students who have gone through the process, and addressed the judging categories of the award are more than competent to vote on their peers.

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

Perhaps FIRST thought it better to let the few animations that do exist all be judged by professionals?

This contradicts some of the reasoning given when they began the Regional Awards. Back then the argument was there were TOO MANY animations for the professionals to go through. Having Regional Awards would filter out the lesser deserving ones to reduce the workload on the Championship judges. Now the workload has been increased beyond where it was when they began Regionals.

Inconsistency in the Visualization Award over the years has been a continuing frustration for the students who participate. There are many threads in the archives discussing these problems.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Bill Moore

I believe the regional awards were voted on by peer animators. (i.e., Only the teams which submitted animations were allowed to vote, and a team could not vote for themself.) Students who have gone through the process, and addressed the judging categories of the award are more than competent to vote on their peers.


This contradicts some of the reasoning given when they began the Regional Awards. Back then the argument was there were TOO MANY animations for the professionals to go through. Having Regional Awards would filter out the lesser deserving ones to reduce the workload on the Championship judges. Now the workload has been increased beyond where it was when they began Regionals.

Inconsistency in the Visualization Award over the years has been a continuing frustration for the students who participate. There are many threads in the archives discussing these problems.

It was because of Autodesk's indifference to the animators concerns that G-3D came into existence.
Looks like it's time to fire it back up.

[Koko Ed]

There are things that can be done about this, but they are not going to happen unless someone (the teams) yell about it and protest this. A little lobbying from all the animators/teams to FIRST on this topic could help. They need to know that this is objectionable, and the animators and teams are upset about it. So you need to get organized and get a group message put together - fast!
We need amunition for the fight with Autodesk over this (they are the ones deleting the award, not FIRST). We need to get a consensus of upset opinions that this is a bad thing that we can then take forward to FIRST and Autodesk.
We have help from an influential person in FIRST (who I am not at liberty to disclose who it is, so don't ask) who is willing to assist us in our fight for the right to party but we the animators have to take the first step to make it happen. So step up, guys!

[JaneYoung]

Ok -
could we maybe start a list here with all of your thoughts?
I've read through once or twice and have 4 things that are coming up in this thread. I'll go through again and see if there are more. Please add, help me out. I am not an animator but I have great respect for your efforts and your work. A 418 alumnus from 2003 taught me to be appreciative.

1. not enough licenses distributed (is this part of what you would want to include in at this time?)
2. has not been and is not consistent for the participants from year to year.
3. not having a peer vote on a regional level would

a. increase the volume of the work load on the Championship level by not having the submissions judged at the regional level
b. decrease the value of the award in that peers and their FIRST mentors who have been through the process, understand it and can appreciate the work and effort of the submissions when voting

4. as evidenced in this thread, more teams have become involved and have actively campaigned and recruited new members in joining their FIRST teams solely for this animation opportunity, only to find that the judging has changed significantly.

What else?
If you don't like any of the wordings and want to add/delete, let me know.
Jane

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Jane

Ok -
could we maybe start a list here with all of your thoughts?
I've read through once or twice and have 4 things that are coming up in this thread. I'll go through again and see if there are more. Please add, help me out. I am not an animator but I great respect for your efforts and your work. A 418 alumnus from 2002 taught me to be appreciative.

1. not enough licenses distributed (is this part of what you would want to include in at this time?)
2. has not been and is not consistent for the participants from year to year.
3. not having a peer vote on a regional level would

a. increase the volume of the work load on the Championship level by not having the submissions judged at the regional level
b. decrease the value of the award in that peers and their FIRST mentors who have been through the process, understand it and can appreciate the work and effort of the submissions when voting

4. as evidenced in this thread, more teams have become involved and have actively campaigned and recruited new members in joining their FIRST teams solely for this animation opportunity, only to find that the judging has changed significantly.

What else?
If you don't like any of the wordings and want to add/delete, let me know.
Jane

Sounds about right.

[JaneYoung]

stats
history
alumni college decisions/choices, etc.
might be helpful...

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Jane

stats
history
alumni college decisions/choices, etc.
might be helpful...

That one could take a while.

[JaneYoung]

I PM'd some questions to you KoKoEd -

[JaneYoung]

I'm getting some response via PMs and I think I will attempt to convey a few of my thoughts that have developed as a result.

- animation has been gaining interest over the past few years and team members are graduating from high school and going on to major in this area in college because of their exposure to this part of the FIRST competition.
- this award is a technical award that deserves attention, recognition, and respect on its own merit
- as much hard work and effort goes into many of these animations as into the robots that the FIRST teams build and deserves that recognition and support
- on the regional level, we could work to find an even, more balanced approach to the judging of the award and as part of recognizing the impact and importance of this, find better methods of display/presentation for the judging. A small screen in a small room may not be the best method.
- teams could find better ways to acknowledge Autodesk in press releases, interviews, promotion, marketing - our relationship with our sponsors is a partnership.

I think that's it for now. Any comments are great.
KoKoEd and I are working to put something together, we'll let you know as we go. As Ed has stated, this has to happen quickly, so if anyone wants to jump in here and lend a hand, cool beans, just PM me.
Jane

[JaneYoung]

Below is what we have come up with to submit to FIRST and to Autodesk. Please read it and make comments/suggestions either here in the thread or via PM. We will let you know how we are going to do the petition or letter. (I checked with one of my attorney friends and a petition can be signed by minors. If anyone knows any differently, please let me know that as well.) Thank you and stayed tuned.
----

- the animators put in as much, and sometimes more, effort into the creation of the animations as the other students put into the creation of the robots

- this is the only incentive program that acknowledges and recognizes their efforts

- this is one of the few parts of the FIRST program that demonstrates that FIRST is interested in inspiring students about more than just robots; that technical animation is also a valid technical field that deserves recognition and respect

- the regional animation awards program is very important to the animation teams, and a major motivation for their efforts

- reducing the animation awards to just a national award will significantly reduce the level of interest in the animation competition - nearly 80% of the teams will not be attending the Championships in Atlanta and will not be in attendance for the presentation of the award, and will not pursue it for that reason

- without the regional animation awards program, we predict a significant reduction in the number of teams participating in the animation competition, impacting the entire season/program

- even if Autodesk will not sponsor the award, it should still be given out (either sponsored by someone else, or without specific sponsorship) at the regional level; the winner can be selected by popular vote, judging like the website awards, or animators selection

- in the entire history of the FIRST program, a competitive technical award has never been removed from the program; does Autodesk want their name to be associated with the first time this happens?

[RoboJedi75]

That sounds great, Jane. I think you covered just about everything.

In the past, the regional animation awards were voted on by animators from each team.

[Dan Zollman]

(I sent this to Jane in a PM earlier.)

Hi Jane,

Thanks for doing this to try to get the regional animation awards back.

I want to add that the elimination of regional awards will discourage teams (especially those with less experience in animation) from creating an entry when they know that there will only be one winner out of all the FIRST teams. Regional awards also provide feedback and identification of teams who are the best in the animation area. Identification of more of these teams is helpful to newer teams seeking animation advice and provides more models. Identification at the regional level means that teams in every region are able to meet successful animators from local teams.

Second, I think that a petition signed by FIRST students and mentors would appear kind of "out of the blue" to Autodesk, especially if the community has yet to bring our concerns to their attention for the first time. Perhaps it would be more effective to frame this as a letter or sign-on letter. It also might help to contact FIRST Headquarters about this (if nobody has done this yet). There could be reasons for this big change that we haven't considered, or reasons to change what we're asking.

Thanks,
Dan

[JaneYoung]

I asked Dan if he would consider posting his private message to me. This is the caliber of student commitment we are privileged to work with in FIRST. It humbles me.

Through KoKoEd's lead, this is becoming a group effort and it is a privilege to be a part of it. Thank you.
Jane

[DinkyDogg]

Another student animator here annoyed about the elimination of the regional awards. I'm the lead animator for team 114, and we got Honorable Mention last year at nats. Here are some of the reasons I want the regionals back:

Regionals encourage rookie teams and teams less experienced in the animation department. It gives them a shot at getting an award, but with the new system Autodesk is imposing, a team has to be one of the top 5 in the country to even have a shot at getting an award. So any team who isn't confident that they're good enough to compete at that level will have no motivation to compete at all!

Also, what if there are more than five teams that are worthy of some kind of award? The regionals allow teams to get rewarded for excellence if they're the best in their area, even if they aren't the best in the country. With the new systems, if there are more than five excellent animations some of them won't get any recognition at all.

The regional awards help local animators to meet each other and network. I've met a few other animators at regionals with whom I keep up a steady correspondence. My team doesn't go to nationals, so without regional animation awards there would be no reason for me to even attend the regionals and I wouldn't get a chance to meet other animators.


Some things Autodesk should also consider:

Why are you trying to decrease students' exposure to 3dsmax? Showing award-winning animations up on the big screen at regionals gets us interested in your product, and now you've done away with that.

Also, your judges will be deluged with animations that haven't been filtered through the regional judging process. If you thought the judging process was hard before, think how hard it's going to be now.

You are decreasing the prestige of animators within our teams by making it harder for us to get recognition for our work. That's not going to inspire new students to become animators. What chance does a newbie have at being one of the top 5 teams in the country? Your new policies are going to make many potential animators give up before they start.



I want to email all of my thoughts to Autodesk. My animation partner feels the same way I do, and he'll email them, too. Does anyone know who specifically to email? If I don't receive any suggestions soon, I'll email Kelly Stanphill, who I think has some association with the animation awards.