Important Rules - 2007 Season

[Steve W]

Hey guy and gals, what has happened to the spirit of FIRST? People already saying that they will bypass the rules, try to find loop holes and generally ignore them. Things like "That said, I want my cart music. I know why they got rid of it, but I still disagree with it and I think we've lost a huge part of the character of FIRST." are just wrong.

FIRST is not about loud music. FIRST is not about ME. FIRST is about learning, growth, consideration of others, following the rules and just plainly not being selfish. I like loud music (even though I am really old), I love reading the rules and pushing them to the limit. I love the competition. I will not however knowingly break the rules or be ungracious. FIRST is not about beating others but excelling yourself with consideration of others. It is a hard task but that is what makes FIRST such a great program. Unlimited challenges with higher expectations.

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by Richard

Good idea for a project. Maybe someone will make an audiobook file of the 2007 Robot Rules -- then all the inspectors can walk around the pits blasting the rules for our general entertainment.

Now THAT is the BEST idea I have heard in a long time ...

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Stu Bloom

Now THAT is the BEST idea I have heard in long time ...

Ooh.. ooh.. even better idea -- audiobook of Dave Lavery and other GDC members reading the rules!

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Steve W

Hey guy and gals, what has happened to the spirit of FIRST? People already saying that they will bypass the rules, try to find loop holes and generally ignore them. Things like "That said, I want my cart music. I know why they got rid of it, but I still disagree with it and I think we've lost a huge part of the character of FIRST." are just wrong.

How can an opinion be incorrect?

Personally, I dislike loud music in the pits, just becuase it makes it much harder to get stuff done, and there is always too much to do in too little time. I'd agree with those who say the loss of music on the cart results in a loss of character becuase I can remember from my first year seeing teams with speakers on their carts and going "Whoah! That's pretty nifty!" and then coming back and saying "We have to do that next year!" I'd agree it's for the best though becuase last time we "lost character" MOE sticks and TJ drums were eliminated, and I think everyone agrees that was for the best.

But for some silly reason, BAE still hands out free air filled thingies that you clap together (I don't know what they're called).

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by iCurtis

But for some silly reason, BAE still hands out free air filled thingies that you clap together (I don't know what they're called).

Thunderstix, I believe, is the common name for them. Terminal Supply Co. included a pair in the 2006 kit of parts.

[dbell]

But for some silly reason, BAE still hands out free air filled thingies that you clap together (I don't know what they're called).

these are not supposed to be used as a distraction in the pits. People who are watching can use these to make a lot of noise. Noise is good when watching the game.

[FourPenguins]

Originally Posted by Steve W

Hey guy and gals, what has happened to the spirit of FIRST? People already saying that they will bypass the rules, try to find loop holes and generally ignore them. Things like "That said, I want my cart music. I know why they got rid of it, but I still disagree with it and I think we've lost a huge part of the character of FIRST." are just wrong.

I never suggested going around the rules. I never suggested breaking the rules. I intend to follow this rule, I simply stated that I disagree with this rule and that cart music has been a big part of MY experience in FIRST. If you don't like cart music, then I respect your opinion, and I guess you lucked out with this ruling.

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by 11Ed71

I never suggested going around the rules. I never suggested breaking the rules. I intend to follow this rule, I simply stated that I disagree with this rule and that cart music has been a big part of MY experience in FIRST. If you don't like cart music, then I respect your opinion, and I guess you lucked out with this ruling.

My apology. After reading your post it seems that I wrote it wrong and put words in your mouth. The part I should have high lighted was "I think we've lost a huge part of the character of FIRST." You said that "we" had lost, not that you will miss an experience. I also believe that if cart music is that big of an experience in FIRST then you are missing a vast amount of what FIRST brings. The music can be heard anywhere. The high intensity, comradeship, experience, innovation, emotional roller coaster ride, friendships, learning, enthusiasm, motivation, pride and so much more are all part of the FIRST experience and only available at a FIRST event. I like music. I am an announcer or MC at many events every year. If loud music bothered me then I have the wrong job because we hear it more than most. The issue comes when there are 10 teams in the pit or queuing line playing different music at different volumes while the pit announcer, judges, students, mentors, press and who knows who else are trying to communicate. We should try to understand that sometimes we need to give up a bit of what we want for the better good of all.

Let it be clear that I do not want to see music removed from FIRST. I do however believe that if we drive away potential or present sponsors or mentors that we need to lower the volume to an acceptable limits. That said, it is a young persons event and others must realize that there will be loud music. We will provide earplugs if you require. Let's have fun and respect others. I believe that this is possible.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Richard

Ooh.. ooh.. even better idea -- audiobook of Dave Lavery and other GDC members reading the rules!

I'm definitely going try and make that happen now...

[TubaMorg]

Hmmm now that the "musical carts" issue has been discussed thoroughly, did anyone notice the rule that prohibits internet use at the venues?

Do not arrange for Internet access on the site or attempt to connect to the Internet.

I believe last year the rule was much less explicit. Something along the lines of internet access not being provided although I remember some venues had wireless access points that allowed internet access. Also others logged on via their cell phones. Hmmmm, how does everyone feel about this one?

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by TubaMorg

Hmmm now that the "musical carts" issue has been discussed thoroughly, did anyone notice the rule that prohibits internet use at the venues?

I believe last year the rule was much less explicit. Something along the lines of internet access not being provided although I remember some venues had wireless access points that allowed internet access. Also others logged on via their cell phones. Hmmmm, how does everyone feel about this one?

I distinctly remember Peachtree having terminals for free internet access in the pit area. USC has a campus-wide wireless network for students and faculty that, in theory at least, covers the venue of Palmetto, and also has closed down a computer lab in Engineering during the team social for general use.

If you ask me, I'd think the issue is better-suited for the Site Info documents for each specific event...but if I have my laptop with me at Palmetto, I will keep the wifi off of the campus network.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by TubaMorg

I believe last year the rule was much less explicit. Something along the lines of internet access not being provided although I remember some venues had wireless access points that allowed internet access. Also others logged on via their cell phones. Hmmmm, how does everyone feel about this one?

Originally Posted by 2006 Manual, Section 7.12

Do not arrange for Internet access on the site or attempt to connect to the Internet.

The rule has not changed from last year.

[Lil' Lavery]

As Karthik said, it didn't change, but that rule has often been flat out ignored in the past. Many teams have set up networks and internet connections at almost any event.

[TubaMorg]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

As Karthik said, it didn't change, but that rule has often been flat out ignored in the past. Many teams have set up networks and internet connections at almost any event.

Interesting observation Lil' Lave. If it's a rule then how come a lot of teams are ignoring it? Is it generally thought of as an unnecessary rule? If so then why is it still in the rules? Anyone who's broken this rule care to chime in?

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

As Karthik said, it didn't change, but that rule has often been flat out ignored in the past. Many teams have set up networks and internet connections at almost any event.

I believe that internal networks are OK. I know that at the GTR we had internet access provided by one of the sponsors. I believe that the rule is that teams are not allowed to order in internet access. I do know that many venues did have access but that was on a regional by regional basis. FIRST did know that we had access at our event and we did ask for permission.