USB Joystick adapter is here!

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by chris31

However, if FIRST would do this i doubt they would but from this company.

Why would you think this?

[chris31]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

Why would you think this?

Nothing against your company I just think FIRST would look to find the same idea but cheaper cost. Also it would mean that they would have to know you would have staff to support any sort of question regarding the product that anyone might have. Dont get me wrong though, Im not trying to bash your product. I think its a great peice that would be usefull to anyone who has one, I just dont see FIRST putting them in the kit.

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

Is it possible to run multiple joysticks through a USB hub using only one unit?

The Chicklet only supports HID. It does not support HUB. We have a solution that does support HUB and other device classes however that solution was not cost effective. We wanted to keep the device affordable for FIRST Teams. Also the 15-pin joystick port does not provide enough interface to support more than one device. We have a device that outputs RS232 data instead of analog/digital. It is less expensive than the chicklet. If we had a serial port on the O/I this would have been the way to go.

Mike Copioli
CTRE
team 217

[dez250]

Originally Posted by chris31

Nothing against your company I just think FIRST would look to find the same idea but cheaper cost. Also it would mean that they would have to know you would have staff to support any sort of question regarding the product that anyone might have. Dont get me wrong though, Im not trying to bash your product. I think its a great peice that would be usefull to anyone who has one, I just dont see FIRST putting them in the kit.

As a point that has been stated before, you may have missed it so i will repeat it. Teams have been looking to use USB supported controls for many years now but theres been one continiual issue, no such adapter has existed for the option. Mike and Cross the Road Electronics, since have designed, created and produced this chicklet. They are the first company to do so, and while you may like to look for it from another source for another price, you just wont find it.

On another note i look forward to all new products introduced to us by CTRE, and espically those which may be included in this years and future Kit of Parts.

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by chris31

Nothing against your company I just think FIRST would look to find the same idea but cheaper cost. Also it would mean that they would have to know you would have staff to support any sort of question regarding the product that anyone might have. Dont get me wrong though, Im not trying to bash your product. I think its a great peice that would be usefull to anyone who has one, I just dont see FIRST putting them in the kit.

"Same idea at a cheaper cost?" ?? From what I can tell, no one else in the world supplies this product. $100 is a bargain. This is a one-of-a-kind innovation made by a small company who is focused on providing a service to FIRST teams.

Kudos to Crossing the Road Electronics for providing this great product to the FIRST community. I just hope that the GDC and FIRST engineering deem it legal.

Andy B.

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

[SNIP]If we had a serial port on the O/I[/SNIP]

I'm curious how hard this would be for IFI to implement, along with the cheaper RS232 adapter, it seems like a good middle ground between those that want USB and those that wish to stay with the gameport. Just adding something like a set of DIP switches to determine whether a serial or gameport device is plugged in and having the OI's microcontroller just break up the serial packets into the various variables and sending those to the RC doesn't seem too complex to me,

[chris31]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

"Same idea at a cheaper cost?" ?? From what I can tell, no one else in the world supplies this product. $100 is a bargain. This is a one-of-a-kind innovation made by a small company who is focused on providing a service to FIRST teams.

Kudos to Crossing the Road Electronics for providing this great product to the FIRST community. I just hope that the GDC and FIRST engineering deem it legal.

Andy B.

Not to start an argument but there $130 (S&H?), not $100. Yes I understand that there custom and no one else makes them. Like I said, I think its a great poduct. I just dont see that they will be in the KOP. The current control system works and I dont see FIRST adding this just to use diffrent controllers. "If its not broken dont fix it". However, for the teams that want to purchase them I think there great. Im even looking at potentially getting one.

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

I'm curious how hard this would be for IFI to implement, along with the cheaper RS232 adapter, it seems like a good middle ground between those that want USB and those that wish to stay with the gameport. Just adding something like a set of DIP switches to determine whether a serial or gameport device is plugged in and having the OI's microcontroller just break up the serial packets into the various variables and sending those to the RC doesn't seem too complex to me,

Remember, IFI is a business. They need to look at such things with a business perspective (not to say they don't do things for the "good of the community", but they need to be smart about how they spend their money too). As an extremely rough guess, it would at least a staff-month (and probably a lot more) to make this change. As software projects go, that IS a small change, but just think of what that would cost IFI. 1/12 of the cost of an employee for a year (which is a lot higher than just their salary - health benefits, etc. add up). This amounts to many thousands of dollars. How are they going to recoup this? Is it going to help them sell more OIs? Not really, since we'll have to use them one way or another anyway.

One thing that students here will learn when they get out of college is that engineering time is expensive. Even "simple" changes can cost a company lots of money. Every feature or tweak or neat thing you want to do to a product that's in development will cost money. Businesses have to evaluate the business case for each of these changes and determine whether it will pay off or not.

[Joel J]

Well.. I'm guessing at this point that the device is probably legal?

Anyway, I don't know what my team would do, if they should decide to buy one. Personally, I think It would be nice to have a wider selection of joysticks, and lord only knows the gameport joysticks have been exotic and quite expensive (right about the same price as these adapters). 2 adapters for the driver, and one for the operator amounts to a nice amount of money. That might be too much. Maybe just get one, for now, for the operator, depending on the game, or make a custom box for the operator and then invest two into being able to get some new(er) USB joysticks for the driver. That will be a decision for the "higher ups," lol, ifjjasasjdi90. This is a new idea, but I'll say that the price makes the decision hard. I don't think it matters. There is enough need for a device like this that adoption won't take that long. If you could get a plug at the kickoff, then everyone would know what your device does, and you'd be setting sail right away.

[Gdeaver]

I know it's a little late in the development cycle but, Cypress Semi Kind of specializes in this type of interface. After this batch some of their solutions may be more cost effective.

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by chris31

I just dont see that they will be in the KOP. The current control system works and I dont see FIRST adding this just to use diffrent controllers. "If its not broken dont fix it".

The joysticks FIRST is giving in the kits are abysmal compared to the older CH Flightsticks. Of course that's because Analog joysticks are 1980s technology. It's increasingly difficult to find joysticks that work with the current Operator Interface.

It is broken, that's why this product exists. FIRST is forcing us to use outdated interface technology. FIRST isn't going to create enough economic incentive for joystick manufacturers to produce Analog joysticks. Eventually IFI will have to change or FIRST will provide us or allow us to buy these Chicklets.

The fact that the Chicklet allow you to connect a game pad is just a unique feature.

I have reservations about whether CrossTheRoadElectronics would meet 2006 vendor requirements. The capital to create enough boards to timely deliver the goods is huge. Yet, AndyMark is somehow able to make due. We've ordered from them and they can deliver. Oh well, I'm not an expert at supply chain. For everyones sake I hope they are a vendor in 2007.

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by Gdeaver

I know it's a little late in the development cycle but, Cypress Semi Kind of specializes in this type of interface. After this batch some of their solutions may be more cost effective.

Yes, Cypress does make USB host and peripheral Devices, however the host devices are the physical layer only. They provide a USB 2.0 physical interface to USB devices. This is only part of the USB protocol. The host is not a stand alone device. You need to interface a micro-controller and have an understanding of the USB data protcols to use this device. This is what Windows and Linix does. We use a similar device in our product to perform the lower level fuctions of the protocol. Yes we could use the Cypress chip instead of the Maxim chip we use in it's place. However the Cypress Chip is twice as expensive as the Maxim.


look up this number on Digikey


Cypress Part #CY7C67300



Mike Copioli
CTRE

[Mike Copioli]

The user manual and FAQ are now up and available for viewing. The tables are a little fuzzy but legable. The manual contains the final list of supported devices.

http://www.crosstheroadelectronics.c...anual_rev1.pdf

http://www.crosstheroadelectronics.c...t_FAQ_rev1.pdf

Mike Copioli
CTRE

[Madison]

Perhaps this is a ridiculous question, but will there be a protective case or something over this device to save it from abuse? It seems fragile.

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Perhaps this is a ridiculous question, but will there be a protective case or something over this device to save it from abuse? It seems fragile.

There will not be a protective case provided. There is a very good reason for this. When the Chicklet was designed, the PCB was dimensioned so it could be connected side by side with another Chicklet. The spacing between the joyports is very tight, It's less than .25". This made it difficult to find an enclosure that the Chicklet would fit into and still be able to connect to the O/I side by side. Also, and probably the most important reason, It would have increased the price by about $15-$20. Enclosures are expensive, machining of the enclosures is expensive. Custom made enclosure, witch the Chicklet would require, are even more expensive. But have no fear the devices are pretty robust. I know, I have tortured the protos quit a bit and have had now known issues. Like the camera, you can always make your own enclosure for the device. If you are to do this you will need to make an enclosure that allows the user to see the state LED.

Mike Copioli
CTRE