Rules Questions

[Aldgazar]

If there were a wrap-around then it would be possible for an infinite row (8 RINGERS all the way around). This could get you the highest score of all time
But most likely the counting starts at 1 and ends at 8 (with no wrap-around).

If they update it so wrap-around is included they would probably need a rule that states that rows end at 8 RINGERS.

[Greg Needel]

The numbers on the racks are for scoring. Refs this year will be using palm pilots to score and the numbers are just a reference. If you think of it logically depending on the inital orientation of the rack it would give a disadvantage to the team that is closest to the 1/8 merger row.

[Guy Davidson]

We looked around some more and found:
1. No ruling about it yet.
2. R79 says we can connect a laptop to get 'feedback' from the robot. The question is, does feedback refer to technical data, like values from the PWM, voltages, etc., or does it also refer to the video from the CMUcam?
3. Also found it ourselves in a second reading, but thanks to DCA fan for #3.
4. I would assume that since we can connect it to get feedback, we could also run other programs on it? Or is it an incorrect assumption?

Thanks,
Guy,
Team 8

[Dan Kramer]

Originally Posted by dhoizner

The tube needs to be supported by the spider leg, and not the stinger. The stinger prevents tubes from being unintentionally descored.

at the sample competition field set-up today in Chicago kick-off event, the stinger was a short (approx. 3 inch), very flexible piece of rubber tubing. I don't see it being an obstacle, easy enough to 'push past.' I believe it is there to keep tubers from bouncy off once achieving scoring position

[Aldgazar]

I found something about the STINGERS. They are 4 inches longer than the SPIDER FOOT according to the field assembly diagrams. Therefore the height of the entire SPIDER FOOT is 14 inches (1 inch longer than the inside diameter of the RINGERS). Luckily the STINGER is flexible.

[DCA Fan]

Originally Posted by ahecht

I'm not sure why you would assume you can't wrap around. As far as I can tell, the numbering is not mentioned at all in the rules, and is only used by the referees to assist them in scoring.

Just erring on the side of caution. Personally I think it will be okay, but since it's not explicitly stated, I tend to say no until they say yes.

[ahecht]

Originally Posted by sumadin

We looked around some more and found:
2. R79 says we can connect a laptop to get 'feedback' from the robot. The question is, does feedback refer to technical data, like values from the PWM, voltages, etc., or does it also refer to the video from the CMUcam?

Look at R63 and R66. Since the robot controller does not have the ability to broadcast video, any secondary broadcast of video would be disallowed by these rules. R109 does provide for a wireless camera to be installed in certain situations, but this rule is only specifically referring to "non functional decorations". If the camera is being used by the drivers, it could affect the outcome of the match, and is therefore functional and not a decoration (a non-functional decoration camera would only transmit to a recording device for later playback or to the event video mixer for display on the big screen).

[Ricky Q.]

The 2 Rules questions threads were just merged together, posts are in the order of date/time posted.

[DavidGitz]

Anybody else find an error on scoring on p 11 in Sec 7? Shouldn't the Blue alliance get 44 pts?

[insomniac6688]

Originally Posted by Aldgazar

Does anyone know anything about the "STINGER" besides the fact that it's a small rubber tube attached to the back of a SPIDER FOOT.

There was something about it in the Kickoff demonstration. One of the RINGERS was stuck on a rubber tube and they said it wouldn't have counted until it was all the way on the SPIDER LEG. I don't remember if this is exactly what they said about it. The manual mentions the STINGER briefly at the end of 6.2.2 (The Arena, The Rack).

From what my team and I can comprehend form the rulebook the stinger is used basically to keep the tubes from falling off. In the demonstration the robot had the tube caught on the stinger in front of the spider leg so it couldn't be scored until it was placed over the stinger.

[DCA Fan]

Originally Posted by DavidGitz

Anybody else find an error on scoring on p 11 in Sec 7? Shouldn't the Blue alliance get 44 pts?

Yes.
Row of 5: 32
Row of 3: 8
Singletons: 2x2
Total: 44

Good catch.

[DCA Fan]

The stingers are only there to prevent the tubes from falling off in the case of shaking. The rule states that the tube must be over the stinger to count, all other instances (ie hanging on the circular plate) will not count as scoring.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by DCA Fan

This will probably be clarified in an update, but for now assume you will not.

If you watch the animation, you will see that red has ringers on 7 and 8. A robot adds one in the same row on 1, and Dave says that the robot "places another ringer, extending the row to three." As such, I would say that you should assume that you WILL.

Edit: Also, if you look at the scoring at the end, the grid has been drawn such that 7 is the first column. It looks like the numbers don't matter for the purposes of competitors, just refs.

[3DWolf]

Originally Posted by Wbrown0389

Does anyone know if it is possible to drop a "ramp" of some sorts in the Home Zone say during auto and complete the remainder of the match? There seems to be conflicting rules saying that we can deploy mechanisms inside the home zone but another rule states that leaving mechanisms behind is a penalty....

Is the FIRST Q&A up?

I think they mean that you can drop a part at the end, but not in the beginning. Because if you were pinned at the other side of the field, and your ramps were in the home zone, it wouldn't seem fair that you would get the points for part of YOUR bot

In regards to the negation question, my team can't find anything in the rules that says you cannot do that, but the circumstances would have to be right in order for the point loss to be worth anything

[Dan Zollman]

Originally Posted by Wbrown0389

Does anyone know if it is possible to drop a "ramp" of some sorts in the Home Zone say during auto and complete the remainder of the match? There seems to be conflicting rules saying that we can deploy mechanisms inside the home zone but another rule states that leaving mechanisms behind is a penalty....

Originally Posted by Wbrown0389

exactly what i was thinking. just not sure if we can deliberately leave something in the home zone, which would not impede movement of any other robots. there is a specific rule stating we cant do it on the field but no clarification in the zone. i think itll b well worth the risk.....who knows well see

The zone is part of the field. Detaching a part within the zone is included when <G40> states that detachment is not allowed.

Originally Posted by sumadin

- Is the coach allowed to have a laptop/tabelt pcs/palm pilots with him when he is with the drivers during a match?

I can't find the rule, but isn't it illegal for coaches to communicate with people outside of the alliance players/drivers? This wouldn't be allowed because the referee can't be sure the coach isn't using it for communication.

Originally Posted by ahecht

Since 1 is adjacent to 8, I would assume that there IS wraparound.

However, any answer is pure speculation until an official answer (either in a Q&A or rule update) is released.

This wouldn't be speculation. Scoring is described by <G54>:

SCORING - Total point values of SCORED ROWS are as follows: ...

The rules define ROW in 7.2.1:

ROW: a set of SPIDER LEGS that are SCORED for the same ALLIANCE and are adjacent and
aligned either vertically or horizontally.

If 8 and 1 are both scored at the same level, they meet the only conditions needed to be scored as a row (legs are adjacent).