The "What the!?!?!" Rule Thread

[Lil' Lavery]

I think the height/weight "classes" are probably the rule that is the most surprising to me. Especially considering it's not really game specific and we could see it again in the future.

[robind]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I think the height/weight "classes" are probably the rule that is the most surprising to me. Especially considering it's not really game specific and we could see it again in the future.

For sure. Quite frankly I'm surprised they haven't done this in previous years.

What I am probably the most surprised about is the use of only one color for the targets. I guess I was sorta expecting multiple colors after the big hubbub at nationals.

[Rafi Ahmed]

I am surprised with the high contact rule. The one with the yellow flags and cards. Its going to be interesting to see how many yellow cards are actually used and how many disqualifications are made.

[Cyberguy34000]

The rules are actually quite tame in changes for this year. Overall they just feel more simplified and more fleshed out than in previous years. I like how the pinning rules have been relaxed around the Rack, which means that we can still have those pushing matches which are a lot of fun to watch.

I'm thinking of the horrors of Triple Play two years ago. I thought the game was a really cool idea, but the rules were just not fleshed out very well and contributed to a ridiculous amount of confusion and inconsistency. Anyone remember the "Loading Zone Violation Penalties"? (shudder)

Well, we've still got another 6 weeks to sift through the rules to see if some ridiculous thing was overlooked, but overall it looks pretty tight. I'm really looking forward to this season.

-Chris

[Jack Jones]

"What the!?!?!"

8.3.4.2 Additional Parts and Materials Rules
...
However, COTS items that have been specifically designed are in and of themselves as a solution
to portion of the FIRST Robotics Competition challenge may or may not fit within the FRC intent,
and must be carefully considered.
...

English!?!?!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

"What the!?!?!"


English!?!?!

It was English. IF a COTS is designed specifically for FIRST (not likely to be available to other robot comps or outsiders is how I see that), it will invite inspection. And, please consider the rest of that rule. IF it is just "plug and play" with little or no assembly or design work, it will not play. If it could be used in multiple places (e.g. AndyMark trannies), it will be allowed. For the record, here is the full text of that paragraph:

Originally Posted by Manual 8.3.4.2

However, COTS items that have been specifically designed are in and of themselves as a solution to portion of the FIRST Robotics Competition challenge may or may not fit within the FRC intent,and must be carefully considered. If the item provides general functionality that can be utilized in any of several possible configurations or applications, then it is acceptable (as the teams will still have to design their particular application of the item). However, COTS items that provide a complete “pre-packaged” solution for a major ROBOT function (e.g. a complete manipulator assembly, pre-built pneumatics circuit, or full mobility system) that require no effort other than just bolting it on to the ROBOT are against the intent of the competition, and will not be permitted.

[Nick 568]

One new rule I find interesting is the "your pit cannot be taller than 10 feet" rule.... Why you ask?
Well, last year, when I lived in the DC area, I was on team 1885. At the championship, we had a 42" plasma mounted about 9' off the ground, so it was over definitely above 10' total height, lol.




Is anyone else having problems with their sevaa server? Our mysql isn't working, so our forums and cpanel aren't accessible. I believe they were attacked or something because their support forums are filled with nothing but spam.

[JohnBoucher]

<G29> ROBOT orientation - ROBOTS must start the match with their long (maximum) dimension in a vertical orientation.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

<G29> ROBOT orientation - ROBOTS must start the match with their long (maximum) dimension in a vertical orientation.

I bet 67 is happy - flop-bots are back in style. There's another team that could use their '04-'05 design in this year's game with little modification. Heck, they even already have a ramp on their backs (although I imagine a little reinforcement would be in order).....

[Taylor]

The part I found interesting is that there is a 10 point penalty for scoring for the other alliance, yet qual points are awarded based on the losing team's score. I wonder how many times, for example, the Redabots will be winning by 60 (which, given the exponential structure of the scoring, is by no means out of the question!) and score for the Blueabots, taking the 10-pointer but still winning the match.

[Kristian Calhoun]

Originally Posted by boiler

The part I found interesting is that there is a 10 point penalty for scoring for the other alliance, yet qual points are awarded based on the losing team's score. I wonder how many times, for example, the Redabots will be winning by 60 (which, given the exponential structure of the scoring, is by no means out of the question!) and score for the Blueabots, taking the 10-pointer but still winning the match.

I found that rule to be interesting as well, because rule <G21> states:

Originally Posted by Section 7

<G21> SCORING for opponents - ROBOTS may not HANG a GAME PIECE of an opposing
ALLIANCE. If this rule is violated a 10-point penalty will be assessed per infraction.

Then later in the manual, when talking about Ranking Points:

Originally Posted by Section 9

9.3.8 Ranking Score
The total number of ranking points earned by a team throughout their qualification matches,
divided by the number of matches played (excluding any SURROGATE matches), then truncated
to two decimal places, will be their ranking score. Note: because your ranking score is derived
directly from the match scores of the losing ALLIANCES in the matches you play, it is in your best
interest to support your opponents and win by helping each ALLIANCE score as many points as
possible.

Unlike in previous years' games, in Rack 'N' Roll it is impossible to score for the opposing alliance. Hanging a ringer of the opposing alliance would result in a 10 point penalty. I can see the intent of rule <G21> in that it intends to stop, lets say the blue alliance, from hanging a red ringer over another red ringer (originally placed by the red alliance) in order to negate that spider leg, and breaking up any rows that have been formed. So as boiler mentioned, I'm curious as to see how many teams will willingly take the penalty in order to negate row(s) formed by the other alliance. Then once the spider leg has two red ringers on it, the red alliance would not be able to remove the second red ringer without being DQed as per rule <G20>, and even then the ringers on that spider leg would be considered void as per the same rule.

You can further not score for the opposing alliance by climbing onto a robot in their home zone as prohibited by rule <G35> and are penalized for being in their home zone during the end game as per rule <G25>. Therefore, the only way to help the other alliance score more points would be to lighten up on the defense...

[Guy Davidson]

Originally Posted by Kristian Calhoun

I found that rule to be interesting as well, because rule <G21> states:

Then later in the manual, when talking about Ranking Points:

Unlike in previous years' games, in Rack 'N' Roll it is impossible to score for the opposing alliance. Hanging a ringer of the opposing alliance would result in a 10 point penalty. I can see the intent of rule <G21> in that it intends to stop, lets say the blue alliance, from hanging a red ringer over another red ringer (originally placed by the red alliance) in order to negate that spider leg, and breaking up any rows that have been formed. So as boiler mentioned, I'm curious as to see how many teams will willingly take the penalty in order to negate row(s) formed by the other alliance. Then once the spider leg has two red ringers on it, the red alliance would not be able to remove the second red ringer without being DQed as per rule <G20>, and even then the ringers on that spider leg would be considered void as per the same rule.

You can further not score for the opposing alliance by climbing onto a robot in their home zone as prohibited by rule <G35> and are penalized for being in their home zone during the end game as per rule <G25>. Therefore, the only way to help the other alliance score more points would be to lighten up on the defense...

Check the latest team update. It adresses this to the wire.

-Guy

[paradoxal]

Originally Posted by boiler

The part I found interesting is that there is a 10 point penalty for scoring for the other alliance, yet qual points are awarded based on the losing team's score. I wonder how many times, for example, the Redabots will be winning by 60 (which, given the exponential structure of the scoring, is by no means out of the question!) and score for the Blueabots, taking the 10-pointer but still winning the match.

they made that rule because a leg is ignored if there is two ringers of the same alliance on it

[NoSkaOnTheRadio]

i'm all for pit height restrictions - some of the displays i saw last year were pretty over the top (ha!), and i think this rule will actually facilitate communication between neighbors. it's good to be friendly, you know?

[petek]

Originally Posted by T. Hoffman

I bet 67 is happy - flop-bots are back in style. There's another team that could use their '04-'05 design in this year's game with little modification. Heck, they even already have a ramp on their backs (although I imagine a little reinforcement would be in order).....

I expect some clarification on this rule. As I read it, <G29> would mean that a basic Class 1 low-profile KOP robot (e.g. a rookie team boxbot) that is 28w x 38l x 18h in its normal running configuration would have to start the match standing on end and would have to flop to run.