Rules Questions

[sciencenerd]

Originally Posted by DavidGitz

Anybody see anything yet about driving on to one of the tubes to get 4" up? Can't intentionally damage the playing piece, but obviously you don't want to damge it because you need it to be functional. Thought in the demo video that in the corner of the screen it had a robot on top of a tube.

Originally Posted by 2007 FRC Manual

<G56> ROBOTS in HOME ZONE - ROBOTS score bonus points at the end of the match if they are entirely in their HOME ZONE, not in contact with any element of the field (carpet, alliance station, goal etc.) and the lowest point of the ROBOT is higher than 4 inches and/or 10 inches above the carpeted field surface.

In addition to the point above about possibly getting dinged for field damage because of this, I would say that the game objects count as "elements of the field." This would mean you are in contact with an "element of the field" because you are sitting on the toroid which negates the bonus points.

[groves]

can yom move the center goal? rotate?

[T3_1565]

I dont know... i think a robot should be able to make itself score those points... its kinda odd if it could not.

Well FIRST is all about teamwork and sportmanship, robots were always given options for things. Like ethier build a bot that can be lifted or build a bot that can do the lifting. Its a choice, Its part of the stratagy.

Teamwork is always key, just hope you work well with your teammates lol.

[Dan Zollman]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Somehow once you drive on it I don't believe you will be 4" high anymore...
And it actually is addressed somewhat in the manual:

While this isn't really a rule, it suggests that it wouldn't be advised to drive on game pieces, and would be against the spirit of this and other rules (namely no damaging field elements).

If you set four game pieces on the ground next to each other and you had a light robot, they would be able to support the weight at 4".
But I'm not really sure what to make of <R37>, since that wouldn't be "pulling" but I don't know if it honors the intent of the rule.

And it's true that the "game piece" may or may not be an "element". Another thing for the Q&A.

[Maximus123]

Originally Posted by groves

can yom move the center goal? rotate?

<g33> in sec 7, pg 8 of 13. the robot can touch and bump it, but you cant just grab ahold of the thing and spin it to any advantage or defensive maneuver. pertaining to the constant debate on the bonus points, its sounding like its impossible to ge t more than 60 unless we can totally levitate, and if some 1 did levitate/hover, ill give them a box of donuts. it even says on page 4 in the introduction, rev a, "Alliances may score some additional points if, by the end of the match, their robots are in their home zone (which btw, is classified as part of the field, section 6, 6.1 overview, shows the home zones a being shown as part of the field) and have been lifted off the floor by 4" or more by ANOTHER Robot before the final buzzer sounds."

[paradoxal]

Originally Posted by CBailey

one way you could get to robots off the ground would be to have 1 robot deploy 2 rams, one on each side, but still connected to the robot, and have the other 2 robots drive up on top of them

my only thought to get 60 bonus points would be to have 1 robot that could deploy 2 ramps then raise them to 12 inches once his opponents are on them
but i remember, in our meting today, hearing something about robots no being able to drive up on top of their opponents but i heard it from a mentor not from an official document so this statement may be false.

rule G35, 6th bullet, you may climb/attach to a robot of your own alliance

[HUNT397]

<R46> Items specifically PROHIBITED from use include:
 Batteries different from, or in addition to, those provided in the Kit Of Parts.
I am a little confused about this rule. Does it mean that the two batteries we have are the only ones we can bring and use? If so power management is going to be fun, especially with back to back matches.

[cbudrecki]

Originally Posted by Maximus123

pertaining to the constant debate on the bonus points, its sounding like its impossible to get more than 60 unless we can totally levitate, and if some 1 did levitate/hover, ill give them a box of donuts.

even if some team did miraculously manage to levitate, they would have to be able to do so under NO power. Remember, all measurements are (at least usually) taken at the end of the match, after power is killed to the field. Unless you have a drive team with amazing mental capabilities (and I'm sure they would write something in the rules about that...), good luck getting a 100+ pound robot to stay in the air.

As stated earlier, FIRST is all about teamwork, they don't want ONE team to be able to do everything alone. Just remember some key terms that FIRST has coined: Co-Opertition, and of course, GRACIOUS PROFESSIONALISM!

[paradoxal]

Originally Posted by tb222

even if some team did miraculously manage to levitate, they would have to be able to do so under NO power. Remember, all measurements are (at least usually) taken at the end of the match, after power is killed to the field. Unless you have a drive team with amazing mental capabilities (and I'm sure they would write something in the rules about that...), good luck getting a 100+ pound robot to stay in the air.

As stated earlier, FIRST is all about teamwork, they don't want ONE team to be able to do everything alone. Just remember some key terms that FIRST has coined: Co-Opertition, and of course, GRACIOUS PROFESSIONALISM!

um, it would most likely be more like 300 lb+, since the one levatating robot would be supporting the other 2, and if it isnt, then thats a waste, and the mind is a terrible thing to waste

[paradoxal]

also, on the 4th to last row of scoring diagrams in section 7, (the blue/blue keeper, red/red keeper), wouldnt it be scored as the color underneath, since the late keepers are ignored during scoring?

[Maximus123]

Originally Posted by paradoxal

also, on the 4th to last row of scoring diagrams in section 7, (the blue/blue keeper, red/red keeper), wouldnt it be scored as the color underneath, since the late keepers are ignored during scoring?

<g14> sec 7, pg 6.they are ignored, but if it is put on by the same team on the same color, they would be disqualified (dumb idea to do it anyways) and they would cancel each other out, meaning no points, and a dq.

[Maximus123]

Originally Posted by HUNT397

<R46> Items specifically PROHIBITED from use include:
 Batteries different from, or in addition to, those provided in the Kit Of Parts.
I am a little confused about this rule. Does it mean that the two batteries we have are the only ones we can bring and use? If so power management is going to be fun, especially with back to back matches.

good point, its very late on the east coast, and my quest to memorize the rule book is getting hazy. i did discuss today that that rule means that no previous years' batteries can be used, only the models this year, so you can buy more batteries of the same model, just cant use previous year's batteries. tomorrow if this hasn't been fully cleared up, ill find the rule or depict it the best i can.

[Maximus123]

one thing that i actually got caught up on was 2 very conflicting rules. first <g23> sec 7, pg 7 it states that "GAME PIECES may only be entered onto the field through the CHUTE." and then <g48> states that "...either by attempting to throw it to a ROBOT or onto the RACK(which in my opnion would be close to imposible, do to the 3 inches we have to vary with the inner diameter of the tubes and the 10 inch diameter of the foot, plus the 4" STINGER)..." and then ti goes on and says " if GAME PIECES are thrown , they must be thrown over the top of the alliance station wall..."

[Maximus123]

Originally Posted by Maximus123

good point, its very late on the east coast, and my quest to memorize the rule book is getting hazy. i did discuss today that that rule means that no previous years' batteries can be used, only the models this year, so you can buy more batteries of the same model, just cant use previous year's batteries. tomorrow if this hasn't been fully cleared up, ill find the rule or depict it the best i can.

<r53> sec 8, pg 21. you can ONLY purchase and use the 2007 model batteries, ES17-12, from MK Battery, in qualifier and elimination matches. other year batteries can be used in development and PRACTICE matches ONLY.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Maximus123

<r53> sec 8, pg 21. you can ONLY purchase and use the 2007 model batteries, ES17-12, from MK Battery, in qualifier and elimination matches. other year batteries can be used in development and PRACTICE matches ONLY.

To add to this, you can go out and buy more batteries OF THIS TYPE ONLY. This has been the rule previously, as in any battery of the type supplied in the KOP is legal and any other type is not.