Rules Questions

[Wbrown0389]

Originally Posted by tb222

now all this talk about dropping ramps in the end zone has me wondering...

wouldn't the ramp be considered part of your robot, and therefore, if you were to be on top of the ramp at the end of the match, the lowest part of your robot (the ramp) would be touching the ground and would therefore be useless

the ramp wouldnt be used for your robot....just the other robot(s). ultimately to the best of my knowledge, the max u can score bonus-wise is 60 pts. no way to get all 3 in the air unless dropping a ramp is allowed, meaning that not only would i have to drop one, but another team woudl also....

[Juju1031]

im not clear on if we have to use thes year gearboxes design or are we allowed to or can we use last years design

[Dominicano0519]

By the way did anyone really understand the procedure to start a match

specifically where the ref puts the rack in motion
does he shake it or spin it

and can the rack be spun throughout the match or do the spiders just swing in pendulum fashion?

please dont say things you are not sure of thanx

[Dominicano0519]

Originally Posted by paradoxal

rule G35, 6th bullet, you may climb/attach to a robot of your own alliance

<R05> "Wedge” ROBOTS are not allowed. ROBOTS must be designed so that interaction with opposing ROBOTS results in pushing rather than tipping or lifting. Neither offensive nor defensive wedges are allowed. All parts of a ROBOT between 0 and 8.5 inches from the ground (the top of the BUMPER ZONE) that are used to push against or interact with an opposing ROBOT must be within 10 degrees of vertical. Devices deployed outside the ROBOT footprint should be designed to avoid wedging. If a mechanism or an appendage (e.g. a harvester for retrieving GAME PIECES) becomes a wedge that interferes with other ROBOTS, penalties, disabling, or disqualification can occur depending on the severity of the infraction.

ramped robots aren't allowed on opponents but then this rule comes in

<R06> Ramps, platforms as other mechanisms specifically designed to elevate ROBOTS during the END GAME are exempt from Rule <R05> when they are deployed in the HOME ZONE. Such devices deployed outside the HOME ZONE are not covered by this exemption.

[JohnBoucher]

9.3.8 Ranking Score
The total number of ranking points earned by a team throughout their qualification matches,
divided by the number of matches played (excluding any SURROGATE matches), then truncated
to two decimal places, will be their ranking score. Note: because your ranking score is derived
directly from the match scores of the losing ALLIANCES in the matches you play, it is in your best
interest to support your opponents and win by helping each ALLIANCE score as many points as
possible.

If you can't score an opponents playing piece, how can you help each Alliance???

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

If you can't score an opponents playing piece, how can you help each Alliance???

LOL I was wondering that myself.

Don't play defense? Don't deploy spoilers? Lose???

The art of coopertition seems a bit lost in this year's game.

[OZ_341]

Originally Posted by Maximus123

one thing that i actually got caught up on was 2 very conflicting rules. first <g23> sec 7, pg 7 it states that "GAME PIECES may only be entered onto the field through the CHUTE." and then <g48> ........

These rules ( g23 and g 48 ) are a clear and obvious conflict. This could be critical if you want to feed your robot in a different way than through the chute.

Hopefully this will get cleared up soon.

[Aldgazar]

I think that rule g23 is claiming that RINGERS can only go one way through the chute, onto the field, and not the other way, into the alliance zone. This prevents teams ffom hoarding the RINGERS where the other team cannot go. Same idea goes for RINGERS thrown off the field, they get placed back on when it is safe g22 (the previous rule)

This means that it is ok to throw the RINGERS over the alliance station wall and to send them through the chute onto the field, but not through the chute to the alliance zone.

[Maximus123]

Originally Posted by Dominicano0519

By the way did anyone really understand the procedure to start a match

specifically where the ref puts the rack in motion
does he shake it or spin it

and can the rack be spun throughout the match or do the spiders just swing in pendulum fashion?

please dont say things you are not sure of thanx

<g07> sec 7, pg 5. "Center RACK position - After all six ROBOTS are in their starting positions and the DRIVERS, COACHES and HUMAN PLAYERS are in the ALLIANCE ZONE, the RACK will be moved (translated and/or rotated) to an arbitrary position so that the center of the RACK is within a 3 foot radius of the playing field center but the exact location and orientation of
the RACK is unpredictable. After this point in time no ROBOT may be moved or
repositioned until the match starts."
this means thats after all roborts have been properly set in the home field and all students and mentors leave the field, the refs on the field go and randomly spin it either left or right, AND it can be pushed or pulled around up to 3 feet away from the exact center of the field. so not only that it could be rotated, it can be relocated.

[Maximus123]

Originally Posted by Aldgazar

I think that rule g23 is claiming that RINGERS can only go one way through the chute, onto the field, and not the other way, into the alliance zone. This prevents teams ffom hoarding the RINGERS where the other team cannot go. Same idea goes for RINGERS thrown off the field, they get placed back on when it is safe g22 (the previous rule)

This means that it is ok to throw the RINGERS over the alliance station wall and to send them through the chute onto the field, but not through the chute to the alliance zone.

<g23> states that any game piece( which means ringers and spoliers only)can be passed form alliance zone into field through the chute, not the other way around, as you said. <g48>
states that they can enter game pieces by throwing it over the wall(from the start, not just if it was dropped out of the field, which would be put right back where it was put right inside field)passing through the chute, either to a robot or to the ground fr a robot pcikup.

[efoote868]

with regard to g09:
Herding of multiple GAME PIECES, or herding of a GAME PIECE on the floor while in POSSESSION of another GAME PIECE is not permitted (as this would be considered POSSESSION of more than one GAME PIECE)

Is this going to apply to the last 15 seconds of a match, when a robot that somehow unfolded (to get other alliance members off the floor), and as a direct result of that action pushed out of the way several game pieces?

[Maximus123]

Originally Posted by efoote868

with regard to g09:
Herding of multiple GAME PIECES, or herding of a GAME PIECE on the floor while in POSSESSION of another GAME PIECE is not permitted (as this would be considered POSSESSION of more than one GAME PIECE)

Is this going to apply to the last 15 seconds of a match, when a robot that somehow unfolded (to get other alliance members off the floor), and as a direct result of that action pushed out of the way several game pieces?

as long as your not "herding" them around, and from what i understand, you can only "deploy" your full robot in the home zone safely so no rules will be infringed. you can deploy your robot fully out to 72 inch by 72 inch on the field, but the wedge rule it VERY strict this year.

[gblake]

I am curious if there is a quick pointer to some FORMAL statement that suffering a penalty (even one that results in your robot being disabled), in order to keep from losing a match, is "against" the spirit of FIRST.

With the exception of actions that cause one's team to be disqualified, I tend to think of penalties as just "points". Some points are added to your score. Some points are subtracted from your score.

With the exception of actions that are cause for a DQ, I am unaware of anything immoral, malicious or ungracious about reducing your own alliance's score somewhat, in order to avoid seeing the opposing alliance's score grow enough defeat your alliance.

If the actions that generate negative points were against the spirit of FIRST, then I would presume that FIRST would simply DQ you for doing them. Instead most penalties seem to be designed to emphasize having teams accumulate postive points, but not exclude occasionally making the wise choice of picking up a few negative points in order to avoid completely losing a match.

After all, match points are used before ranking points are used.

Is there a pointer to a RULE?

Thanks
Blake

[George1902]

Originally Posted by 1885.Blake

If the actions that generate negative points were against the spirit of FIRST, then I would presume that FIRST would simply DQ you for doing them. Instead most penalties seem to be designed to emphasize having teams accumulate postive points, but not exclude occasionally making the wise choice of picking up a few negative points in order to avoid completely losing a match.

Blake is exactly right. In many competitions, competitors may choose to take a penalty as a better outcome in a game. In football an offense may take a "Delay of Game" penalty to give their punter more room to kick. A defensive back may take a "Pass Interference" penalty to prevent a touchdown. In baseball a pitcher will often intentionally walk opposing batters to create a favorable situation for the defense. In chess it's common to sacrifice a piece to gain position or initiative.

If the GDC wanted these actions to be outlawed completely, they would have made the penalties harsher. As it stands, I'll gladly take -20 points for my alliance to turn their 256-point row of eight into three four-point rows of two if I can't get my hands on any spoilers.

[mstrjdilrd]

if u take off an opponents ring from the rack would u get a double penalty for taking a ring off and holding an opponents ring. if this has already been answered please just direct me.