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#196
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
An observation about game complaints: Speaking as a 4th-year FRC programmer, I would say that the differences between the competence of programming teams will be more related to the programming skill, enthusiasm, and awareness of good development practice of the team members more than a particular familiarity with a specific component.
So I don't think the arguments about cameras being easier for veterans that have been presented in this thread hold much water. Teams with quality robot code will have good programming as long as they can retain their skilled members and good practices (e.g. use revision control, sub-divide tasks, test at every step, etc.). The best way to improve your programming team is by having members become passionate about computer science in their own time and investing some effort to go read a few books and papers (and you certainly can't level that out with rules). I'm not a big fan of the CMUCam's capabilities either. However, it's certainly a relevant technology for us roboticians. Guess what Stanford used on their winning DARPA autonomous vehicle? A camera augmented with laser range finders. This stuff will be important, even though we won't get to play with bayesian inference engines on our dinky PICs. Finally, perhaps it's valuable to see the wide range of opinions that exist about this year's game, but I think some people are being unnecessarily negative in this thread ("hate" is a strong word and all that). Maybe we should reserve some judgement on whether the game design was good or bad until we actually get some robots built and see some competition. Sorry for adding another rant to this thread (meta-rant though). ![]() |
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#197
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
My pre-build / competition reaction to the game: I like it. 2 thumbs up game design committee, you created a game that's not only challenging but allows for multiple strategies and styles of play, and continues to build on using the camera while making autonomous mode more important this year more than ever as well.
This is going to be one interesting year. |
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#198
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
I'm on mechanical team and all I want to say is...
I Want Some Obstacles On The Field! Seriously, they could have placed a 4 by 4 piece of pine on the gound at the very least. Imagine how much harder THAT would have been to navigate. Imagine the difficulty in accounting for unpredictable obstacles that block your robot while trying to track an unpredictably moving light. Actually, I can imagine what 2008 will be like... ![]() Last edited by Gabe : 07-01-2007 at 03:05. |
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#199
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
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i didnt mean to cause so much arguing. |
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#200
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
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That said I can respect the fact that FIRST has perfected the use of the camera and they know this one works. There is a lot to be said for having working parts. If somebody can show me that the lack of resources to test and debug new sensors is why we do not have new sensors I will respect that. I'll also gladly offer to help test and debug new sensors myself. Quote:
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I can't tell you how comforting it is to see you guys argue with me. I really want to be wrong on all of this. Last edited by Katy : 07-01-2007 at 11:46. Reason: forgot to write a "then" on an "if" statement |
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#201
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
Idea Time!
Since we think that visability might be some small concern in one way or another during compeition, is it expected to see some teams trying to score their keepers in the parts of the Rack the opposing alliance view the easiest? |
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#202
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
Last year at an off season event i finally ripped the camera lens part off and threw it at a rookie.. i said dont lose it, it cost a lot of money... We then won the event... Camera's are my anti-fun |
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#203
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
Yes. We paid ~$600 yesterday for materials. Constructed entirely of wood and PVC, with the chains and all.
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#204
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
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#205
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
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Great design! But lets not forget... its about the students! There are no losers in First ![]() |
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#206
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
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#207
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
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You can either go around, move them or my personal fav ... over them ![]() |
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#208
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
Ok, My reaction is that I don't like the game so much. Last years game was awesome, because anybody who came in and sat down could understand " If you put the ball in the hole, you get points for it", because it was reminiscent of basketball. The game let teams choose multiple routs of design: Shooter, Dumper, defense, or all three.
With the introduction of the FIRST KOP wheels, the playing field for defense has been leveled. In previous years we have made custom wheels that enabled us to push anybody, even with IFI traction wheels. These new FIRST wheels are more grippy, and have harder rubber than our custom ones, which means that we will be using them this year. With everybody having the same High traction wheels, FIRST has effectively eliminated defense in this years game (Except for the limited weight advantage that can be gained from weight/height differences). As for the mechanical design portion of the game, teams are left two options, build an exceptional articulated arm, or build an exceptional lift robot. Building an articulated arm is old hat, and I don't envision building a ramp/lift to be all that difficult. Also, I don't envision too much scoring on the other side of the spider rack, because in order to do this successfully, you have to implement a good camera setup, which quite a few rookie teams won't be able to to, and a fair number of non-rookie teams were unable to do last year. My last qualm with this game is the complexity of it. We have 120 seconds to complete it, and there is so much strategy in this game that it is kinda like completing a game of Chinese-checkers in two minutes. Not everyone who comes in and sits down will be able to understand what is happening, and after running the game animation for my 14-year-old brother twice, he still didn't understand the entire form of the game.I guess that I wish the game was more design-intensive, and less strategy intensive. That would have provided a more exciting game for non-FIRST viewers, and more exciting game play for FIRST participants. Just some thoughts on the subject, -Cody C |
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#209
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
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Exactly my issues with the game as well! |
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#210
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Re: RACK & ROLL Reaction
personoly i like challenges, down with silver platters. it will be interesting to see what people do during the competition...at the place where i went for the kickoff had one of those racks made and it seems when you put pressure on a leg that leg stops moving. what i am really wondering is what they will do NEXT year...
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