Risk of the Lift?

[Graham Donaldson]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

You may even build a chopper

And then, at the end of the match, the drive teams who are being lifted all say at once (in a GOVERNATOR voice)- "GET TO ZE CHOPPER!!!"

[Al Skierkiewicz]

In order that robots who want to be lifted at the end of a match, someone should come up with a specification for a standard lifting attachment. This way, teams may design a lifting mechanism that other teams can design for.

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by robotcanuck1676

And then, at the end of the match, the drive teams who are being lifted all say at once (in a GOVERNATOR voice)- "GET TO ZE CHOPPER!!!"

ROTFLMAO!

Nice.

[cgredalertcc]

ramp = safe
lift = dangerous
bottom line
also in order to accomodate two robots on a platform it would have to be between 36 and 38 inches wide and 80-86 inches long. This would accomodate for robots with wheels along the short or long sides.

i think we got it. I designed it in inventor and have made a cardboard mach up and today I'm building a half scale model to show at the meeting tonight.

wouldn't 60 points pretty much change the match outcome in most situations?

[Bongle]

There are really three methods.

Ramp
Lift from above
Lift from below

I can see lift from below being dangerous because your centre of gravity is above the lifting point and toppling is an issue, but lifting from above should be safe as long as your attach point is solid and they aren't lifting you with silly string.

Ramps are only slightly less dangerous from a toppling perspective. Maneuvering onto a 3ft wide ramp at low speeds will be very difficult for many robots because a motor might stall and all of a sudden they spin and fall off. You can't go at high speeds because you'll damage the lifting robot and also probably fall off. If either your drivers or the rampbots drivers bump their controls, you can easily topple off.

If you're 12 inches off the ground on a ramp, you're just as far up as on a lift. That's just as much robot-destroying potential energy. In either case an accidental movement of either robot might topple you. If you're lifting from above, with a chain, even the lifting robot jiggling might be safe since you you just sway. The lifted robot could do whatever they want.

There were plenty of robots in 2004 that chin-upped without incident despite other robots competing for limited chinup space. Many of them got substantially higher than just 12 inches.

[Alex698]

Originally Posted by Bongle

There are really three methods.

Ramp
Lift from above
Lift from below

I can see lift from above being dangerous because your centre of gravity is above the lifting point and toppling is an issue, but lifting from above should be safe as long as your attach point is solid and they aren't lifting you with silly string.

Ramps are only slightly less dangerous from a toppling perspective. Maneuvering onto a 3ft wide ramp at low speeds will be very difficult for many robots because a motor might stall and all of a sudden they spin and fall off. You can't go at high speeds because you'll damage the lifting robot and also probably fall off. If either your drivers or the rampbots drivers bump their controls, you can easily topple off.

If you're 12 inches off the ground on a ramp, you're just as far up as on a lift. That's just as much robot-destroying potential energy. In either case an accidental movement of either robot might topple you. If you're lifting from above, with a chain, even the lifting robot jiggling might be safe since you you just sway. The lifted robot could do whatever they want.

There were plenty of robots in 2004 that chin-upped without incident despite other robots competing for limited chinup space. Many of them got substantially higher than just 12 inches.

Good Points, Maybe all teams should consider putting a victor brake function in their programming and controls? Just a thought

[ChuckDickerson]

Originally Posted by cgredalertcc

ramp = safe

Hmm, You must have been watching a different competition than I was last year. The number of teams that couldn't climb the ramp surprised me. The number of teams that tried to climb the ramp and fell over astounded me.

[Ericgehrken]

It is almost going to be impossible to use a lift to elevate your alliance's robots. It is going to be impossible because pneumanic cylinders are not going to give enough force to exert a lifting device.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by firstbots195

It is almost going to be impossible to use a lift to elevate your alliance's robots. It is going to be impossible because pneumanic cylinders are not going to give enough force to exert a lifting device.

I predict you'll be mighty surprised when you go to regionals and see many successful lifts

[3@G13_1388]

It is almost going to be impossible to use a lift to elevate your alliance's robots. It is going to be impossible because pneumanic cylinders are not going to give enough force to exert a lifting device.

im pretty sure that the pneumatic cylinders come in larger sizes than they gave us so i think it will be possible to lift other robots with a lift. and i thin the largest size is a 2 inch cylinder.

[Bongle]

Originally Posted by 3@G13_1388

It is almost going to be impossible to use a lift to elevate your alliance's robots. It is going to be impossible because pneumanic cylinders are not going to give enough force to exert a lifting device.

im pretty sure that the pneumatic cylinders come in larger sizes than they gave us so i think it will be possible to lift other robots with a lift. and i thin the largest size is a 2 inch cylinder.

In 2004 team 1141 had 4 pneumatic cylinders (one at each corner of the robot) that lifted them 1 ft so that their 9ft arm could grapple onto the bar. This allowed them to make it geometrically impossible for the robot to not be high enough. So the stock pneumatics CAN lift a robot.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by 3@G13_1388

It is almost going to be impossible to use a lift to elevate your alliance's robots. It is going to be impossible because pneumanic cylinders are not going to give enough force to exert a lifting device.

im pretty sure that the pneumatic cylinders come in larger sizes than they gave us so i think it will be possible to lift other robots with a lift. and i thin the largest size is a 2 inch cylinder.

Cmon man you gotta put up a better argument than broad statements like "its almost going to be impossible..." or "im pretty sure..."...If you think teams cannot be lifted with pneumatics, you might wanna scroll through CD-media back to 2004 where quite a lot of teams used pneumatics to lift there 120lb+ selves............VERY SUCCESSFULLY

Get creative...impossible is a dangerous word my friend

[pascoea]

Why are you limiting yourselves to pneumatics? There are MANY more options that would work just fine.

And I would agree, things that were impossible 10 years ago are now old news.

Keep the good ideas coming.

[Alex.Norton]

Why can't pneumatics lift? We used a 2-inch cylinder in 2004 to lift our robot and that was pulling. If you look at the math that 2-inch cylinder (the actual piston was probably smaller, lets say 1.5 inches) has 7 square inches of pushing power. At 60 psi that means that cylinder has 424 pounds of force. Now lets lower that estimate some for efficiency and put it at a mere 300 pounds just for fun. That means that with the number that our team currently owns (two) we could lift 5 robots off the floor to a height of about 3 ft. If we didn't lift us then with two we could lift every other robot on the field. They have more than enough power to lift your entire team.

However, I don't think that would be the way to do it cause that takes a long time to charge up for (and more than all of the storage that we got). I think a motor winch would be better suited. Also why is a lift more dangerous than a ramp? When rolling up a ramp the robot is moving on a very narrow surface and might drift without the driver being able to tell. When a lift is working then all of the force is vertical, that robot only moves up and not laterally (hopefully). No lateral force result in no lateral motion and so how does the robot topple? If the lift is done well I bet that it’s safer than a ramp cause it can be better automated.

Just a couple of thoughts

[amos229]

While yes there is a danger in the lift, dont forget we were jumping off a foot tall ramp last year.