Risk of the Lift?

[Alekat]

I don't think we can determine which method is more dangerous since you can't know exactly how those two options are being accomplished. But if someone messes up their bot driving up a ramp it's their fault, which could be a different story with a lifter, so I'd opt for the ramp.

We've been thinking about a ramp that has a sort of jack underneath it to level out the ramp and raise your ally's bot. I see this as a combination of the two methods.

[hallk]

I think the practice fields will be full of teams praticing lifting to lower the risk. It would be nice if at the regionals there could be the practice field and then also an extra spot of carpet that the teams could practice lifting on.

[Alekat]

That sounds good on one condition. A big sign that says "Weight Room" must be placed somewhere nearby.

[cgredalertcc]

Originally Posted by DeepWater

Hmm, You must have been watching a different competition than I was last year. The number of teams that couldn't climb the ramp surprised me. The number of teams that tried to climb the ramp and fell over astounded me.

I wasn't refering to the ramp of last years competition. If you had a more shallow grade on your ramp it is easier to get onto. Also a ramp wouldn't require the counter balancing that would come with lifting a robot.

[ChuckDickerson]

Originally Posted by cgredalertcc

I wasn't refering to the ramp of last years competition. If you had a more shallow grade on your ramp it is easier to get onto.

Of course, however a lot of teams couldn't climb the ramp last year because on low ground clearance. I am just trying to point out that these robots are/should be built to take a beating, fall over, etc. A ramp is not always "safe" and even a 12" fall shouldn't be the death of a robot.

Originally Posted by cgredalertcc

Also a ramp wouldn't require the counter balancing that would come with lifting a robot.

I think you should broaden your thinking about not cantileaverd lifts.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Pavan

With this years game there are two main ideas of how to get the robot up either four inches or twelve inches. They are by ramp or by lifting. For those that are lifting and for those that plan to either climb or be lifted, I believe that the lift is much more dangerous. Although with the ramp you have to to keep it in your base and with 2" of clearance due to bumpers you will need to have a small angle thus a longer ramp, it is much more safer. Your robot is always on solid ground. With the lift you are in the air. Are you sure 30 points is worth the risk of your robot falling twelve inches off of the ground? Although I hope this never happens, I think before teams start thinking of being lifted that they should all consider the possibilities both positive and negative. The main one is a robot falling, and today when my team was discussing this I thought of the fact that if you are being lifted up, you are no longer in control of your robot, and that if anything happens your robot will fall. What if it does? Will your team build a more robust robot that can take a twelve inch fall? Will your team prepare for a worst case scenario?

Before you answer keep in mind that six hard weeks of planning, designing, and building went are going to go into your creation.


Pavan.

Well they don't tell you to build the robots hardy for nothing.
In 2004 I saw robots drop from five feet and still manage to survive and function (after some repair work) one even went as far as the final four after it dropped from the bar. Unless you built your robot out of porcelin I don't think a one foot drop is all that big a deal.

[cgredalertcc]

Originally Posted by DeepWater

Of course, however a lot of teams couldn't climb the ramp last year because on low ground clearance.

Right but by making the angle more gentle you eliminate the ground clearance issue as well.

[paulcd2000]

last year, people knew the ramp would be there, and they still weren't able to get up. this year, the ramp isn't actually a game element, so people will be even less likely to design enough torque, or a low enough cg. also, the ramp will probably be pretty narrow. i know that when running from across the field, with 10 seconds left, there is almost no way to make it to the ramp, get aligned, and get up in time.

[T3_1565]

True enough. Most people wont be sitting in the home zone with like 30 secs left in the match to be sure someone knows there set up for the whole ramp thing. I think I lift would be much faster if pulled off right. As I posted in another thread A forklift can lift a lot more than its own weight with no worry of tipping, and even if there was a chance build safety arms or something on the side so at most the robot tips a bit and wont fall off. One foot isn't much so anything is possible really.. it will depend on the situation. but a lift is do-able.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by firstbots195

It is almost going to be impossible to use a lift to elevate your alliance's robots. It is going to be impossible because pneumanic cylinders are not going to give enough force to exert a lifting device.

I predict you'll be mighty surprised when you go to regionals and see many successful lifts

[ChuckDickerson]

Originally Posted by T3_1565

Most people wont be sitting in the home zone with like 30 secs left in the match to be sure someone knows there set up for the whole ramp thing.

What difference would it make if you never even left your home zone from the very beginning of the match and just sat there the whole time ready to lift your two partners? It's not like the opposing alliance can do anything about it. You can't try to block a "bot lift" because you have to vacate the opponents home zone starting 20 seconds from the end anyway.

[Kim Masi]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Well they don't tell you to build the robots hardy for nothing.
In 2004 I saw robots drop from five feet and still manage to survive and function (after some repair work) one even went as far as the final four after it dropped from the bar. Unless you built your robot out of porcelin I don't think a one foot drop is all that big a deal.

On Galileo at Nationals during FIRST Frenzy, there was a robot suspended in the air, as high as the bar, 10 feet. The entire robot fell off the bar (yes, it fell all ten feet!), landed on polycarbonate and somehow managed to survive. Teams just have to take careful consideration when designing their robot. If you plan to drive up on any other robot, or lift other robots, you have to take the risk factor into consideration.

Also, I think thats the risk that it takes when deisigning any robot. This is what makes the game more interesting to watch.

[cgredalertcc]

alright i'm signing out of this argument 1741 has its methods don't you worry.

[T3_1565]

True enough. But how many robots are going to be sitting there at that time is what I'm trying to say. How many times would like a robot to sit there the entire match just so you can get on it in the last 15 secs? I mean it will be done, i wasn't saying it wouldn't, all I'm saying is it will take time for the ramp to get set up.

[sanddrag]

If your robot cannot survive a 12" fall or a tip over onto it's back or side, you need to build it a bit better. That's my opinion. Robots will inevitably fall with or without platforms/ramps.