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Unread 08-01-2007, 23:52
Jonathan Norris Jonathan Norris is offline
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

I have a funny feeling that the GDC did not have this in mind when designing the game... Very interesting use of the field elements. But this also brings the question if the tubes will be filled up enough to carry the weight like that, and if the tube pops will you get a penalty?
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Last edited by Jonathan Norris : 08-01-2007 at 23:57.
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Unread 09-01-2007, 00:03
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris View Post
I have a funny feeling that the GDC did not have this in mind when designing the game... Very interesting use of the field elements. But this also brings the question if the tubes will be filled up enough to carry the weight like that, and if the tube pops will you get a penalty?
I would argue that they did consider exactly this strategy of gaining bonus points, due to the convenient height of the 4.5" above the ground as shown in the picture. I will be very interested if this method of elevating is allowed. This strategy was my initial reaction to the elevation bonus points, however it seems to me that it would not always be garanteed that your tube would give you 4" of clearance every time due to the inflation variability. Also, the probability of the tube popping is definately higher, so it is rather risky and I don't think the officials would appreciate having to replace tubes for every time this strategy is attempted.
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Unread 09-01-2007, 00:13
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

If this were legal then it would be possible for all three robots on an alliance to be suspended at the same time. It is pretty clear by the scoring rules that this is not possible.
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Unread 09-01-2007, 00:54
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

We took plywood and three mentors on a tube and it didn't pop. That would be pretty close to the weight of 3 robots but it was less then 4 inches.
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Unread 09-01-2007, 01:14
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

I think the tube is concidered part of the field elements, but if it isn't it would be great to see the use of this tactic.
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Unread 09-01-2007, 01:25
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

We thought of this today before we left and i tend to think that they are going to consider the ringers game elements, and if you could do this i guarantee there is going to be a tube popped too often for them to let it continue. Though they seem strong enough to hold the weight of the robot when the bottom is flat has anyone tried putting between 100 and 120 lbs. of force onto a sprocket or other object that is likely to stick out from the bottom, and see whether it pops.
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Unread 09-01-2007, 10:27
Conor Ryan Conor Ryan is offline
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTorak View Post
Do you plan on using this to score bonus points?

If so, I hate to say it, but Rule <G56> says ROBOTS in HOME ZONE - ROBOTS score bonus points at the end of the match if they are entirely in their HOME ZONE, not in contact with any element of the field (carpet, alliance station, goal etc.) and the lowest point of the ROBOT is higher than 4 inches and/or 10 inches above the carpeted field surface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
As I said in the picture description, we're still not sure if its legal. It depends on whether the tube is considered as an element of the field. We will post this question to the Q&A when it becomes available.
I thought about this idea with a few other people myself, it's legality depends how you interpret G56, is a Game Piece considered part of the Field? If it isn't part of the field, then go ahead and prop yourself up on 1 or 2 of those and get 15 points.
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Unread 09-01-2007, 13:24
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor Ryan View Post
I thought about this idea with a few other people myself, it's legality depends how you interpret G56, is a Game Piece considered part of the Field? If it isn't part of the field, then go ahead and prop yourself up on 1 or 2 of those and get 15 points.

I wonder if propping yourself up on two of these would be considered "herding" or being "in posession" of two ringers? Gut instinct says that they are considered part of the field anyway.
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Unread 09-01-2007, 14:20
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

i recall reading a rule in which it referred to the tubes as scoring objects and not part of the field...let me see if i can find it
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Unread 09-01-2007, 14:48
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

Quote:
We took plywood and three mentors on a tube and it didn't pop. That would be pretty close to the weight of 3 robots but it was less then 4 inches.
You must have younger mentors - the older ones are correspondingly heavier

If 3 mentors were on TWO tubes laid side-by-side, would they be higher than 4 inches then?
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Unread 09-01-2007, 16:22
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

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Originally Posted by mluckham View Post
You must have younger mentors - the older ones are correspondingly heavier

If 3 mentors were on TWO tubes laid side-by-side, would they be higher than 4 inches then?
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Unread 10-01-2007, 11:11
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

As per team update #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Section 7.3.6, Rule <G56>
The sentence “ROBOTS score bonus points at the end of the match if they are entirely in their HOME ZONE, not in contact with any element of the field (carpet, alliance station, goal, etc.) and the lowest point of the ROBOT is higher than 4 inches and/or 10 inches above the carpeted field surface” has been changed to “ROBOTS score bonus points at the end of the match if they are entirely in their HOME ZONE, not in contact with any element of the field (carpet, alliance station, goal, etc. - note that for the purposes of this rule, GAME PIECES are considered field elements) and the lowest point of the ROBOT is higher than 4 inches and/or 12 inches above the carpeted field surface.”
So, this would be illegal.
Hmm, now what?
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Unread 10-01-2007, 13:00
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

<G08> Obtaining GAME PIECES - ROBOTS may obtain GAME PIECES via any of the following methods:Accepting a KEEPER prior to the start of the match as detailed in Rule <G04>Picking up RINGERS from the opposing ALLIANCE HOME ZONE that were placed there prior to the start of the match Grasping RINGERS or SPOILERS that have been placed in the CHUTE by the HUMAN
PLAYER Picking up RINGERS or SPOILERS from the playing field surface
Removing a SPOILER from a HANGING position on the RACK


if a tube is a field element then you could not grab it. do to rule

G33> Field interaction - ROBOTS may push or react against any elements of the field, provided there is no damage or disruption of the field elements. ROBOTS may not grab, grasp, grapple, or attach to any field structure. If a ROBOT violates this rule, the head referee will give one warning. If the referee determines that the TEAM is disregarding the warning, their ROBOT will be disabled for the remainder of the match.

So the tube is a game piece and would fall under those rules and not the element rules.


So if you drop one tube on another, that is not herding because you only had one tube on your robot at a time. then if you climb on one tube you still have not touched both tubes this will get you up over the 12"

unless they make a new rule I think this would work.


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Last edited by Mike Norton : 10-01-2007 at 13:01. Reason: update
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Unread 10-01-2007, 11:15
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Holley View Post
i recall reading a rule in which it referred to the tubes as scoring objects and not part of the field...let me see if i can find it
Just changed in team update.

7.3.6

Not allowed to sit on tube. almost every team hates to hear this
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Unread 10-01-2007, 13:03
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Re: pic: Height on top of a tube

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65_Xero_Huskie View Post
Just changed in team update.

7.3.6

Not allowed to sit on tube. almost every team hates to hear this
And every Referee loves to hear this cause it means less time between matches seeing if a robot is floating at the right height on a tube, and the field reset crew loves to hear this cause this means less chance to break a tube/ less time to reset the field.

Oh well.
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