<R12> 72" x 72" Size Restriction

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I honestly cannot wait to see the refs out there with tape measures trying to see what the invisble 72" box is, and when a robot extends out of it. Honestly this seems quite difficult to enforce if what were talking about is the correct interpretation.

I can seen Robot Inspectors doing exactly that, before your robot ever gets to the field. An extra long arm is a potential safety hazard to people near the field boundary, such as referees, emcees, announcers, field resetters, etc. To protect those people, the Lead Robot Inspector has discretion under <R112> to keep any robot off the field, even for practice, until it has been brought into compliance with the rules.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Richard

I can seen Robot Inspectors doing exactly that, before your robot ever gets to the field. An extra long arm is a potential safety hazard to people near the field boundary, such as referees, emcees, announcers, field resetters, etc. To protect those people, the Lead Robot Inspector has discretion under <R112> to keep any robot off the field, even for practice, until it has been brought into compliance with the rules.

I also can see this, but there are many different orientations of robots. This also severely limits the types of arms you can make, articulation will require some thorough calculations.

[Taylor]

The rules are simple. Your robot may, during normal play, not exceed 72" X 72". Use your GP, stay within the confines of the rules, don't try to bend or break these rules and everything will be fine. Yes, some rules make the game hard - that's the point! With each limitation comes a new challenge, another opportunity to show off your team's ingenuity.
Personally, I would hope that refs would never have to whip out their 72-inch measuring sticks - if the robots are designed respectfully within the given boundaries, there won't be any problems.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by boiler

The rules are simple. Your robot may, during normal play, not exceed 72" X 72". Use your GP, stay within the confines of the rules, don't try to bend or break these rules and everything will be fine. Yes, some rules make the game hard - that's the point! With each limitation comes a new challenge, another opportunity to show off your team's ingenuity.
Personally, I would hope that refs would never have to whip out their 72-inch measuring sticks - if the robots are designed respectfully within the given boundaries, there won't be any problems.

Again, my only question is if it's a 72"x72" box you have to fit in, or if you paste something on your robot that says "72" this way, and 72" that way."

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Again, my only question is if it's a 72"x72" box you have to fit in, or if you paste something on your robot that says "72" this way, and 72" that way."

I expect the inpsection checklist will have a line item corresponding to <R12>. The test will probably be to place the arm or extension so that it is at its maximum reach, then verify that the robot still fits within the 72" wide x 72" deep limit. Of course, passing this test will not ensure that an arm is legal. Safety is always the paramount concern, and <R03> clearly says that an otherwise-legal device on a robot can be disallowed if, in the judgement of the inpsectors or referees, it poses a hazard.

[Brandon Holley]

i think this rule is good, arms could get out of control...but then again this is FIRST :-P

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

i think this rule is good, arms could get out of control...but then again this is FIRST :-P

Uhh, yeah. I was one of numerous volunteers to get inadvertently whacked by a tetra in 2005, while standing near the edge of the field. I recall seeing video somewhere of another volunteer actually getting capped, and something similar happened to a robot operator when an arm reached over the end wall and dropped one.

FIRST will continue searching for rules and procedures to keep us from hurting ourselves. However, none of this will substitute for judicious application of common sense.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Richard

FIRST will continue searching for rules and procedures to keep us from hurting ourselves. However, none of this will substitute for judicious application of common sense.

without a doubt

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Richard

I expect the inpsection checklist will have a line item corresponding to <R12>. The test will probably be to place the arm or extension so that it is at its maximum reach, then verify that the robot still fits within the 72" wide x 72" deep limit. Of course, passing this test will not ensure that an arm is legal. Safety is always the paramount concern, and <R03> clearly says that an otherwise-legal device on a robot can be disallowed if, in the judgement of the inpsectors or referees, it poses a hazard.

I would surmise as much, but I'm going to ask the question anyways. I've seen enough official interpretations counter to my instincts that I feel safer just checking.

[Pat Fairbank]

Originally Posted by Richard

The test will probably be to place the arm or extension so that it is at its maximum reach, then verify that the robot still fits within the 72" wide x 72" deep limit.

I don't think this kind of test would work. The rule states that "a ROBOT may expand up to a maximum width of 72 inches and depth of 72 inches", not that the robot must fit within such a limit at maximum extension.

If a team were to design a robot with an arm that was mechanically capable of exceeding the limit, but either programatically limited the horizontal extension of the arm or trained their operators to always stay within the limit, it wouldn't appear to be a violation of <R12>.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

I don't think this kind of test would work. The rule states that "a ROBOT may expand up to a maximum width of 72 inches and depth of 72 inches", not that the robot must fit within such a limit at maximum extension.

If a team were to design a robot with an arm that was mechanically capable of exceeding the limit, but either programatically limited the horizontal extension of the arm or trained their operators to always stay within the limit, it wouldn't appear to be a violation of <R12>.

This sort of litmus test cannot work this season, as the rules explicitly state that robots are permitted to extended beyond this limit while in their home zone. It's entirely likely that many robots will have mechanisms that extend beyond 72", possibly even serving multiple functions, and that there's no comprehensive or accurate way of determining -- on or off the field -- whether this rule has been violated.

[Steve W]

[quote=Pat Fairbank;553092]I don't think this kind of test would work. The rule states that "a ROBOT may expand up to a maximum width of 72 inches and depth of 72 inches", not that the robot must fit within such a limit at maximum extension./QUOTE]

I think that Pat has shown that turning the robot on an angle is not a way around the rule. You will note that width and depth are described and definitions are in the rules on what these are.

Question is : if your robot goes straight up to 10' and falls over what then?
Penalty for exceeding as per the Q&A:
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FRC176

Default <R12>72 x 72 foot print
72 x 72
I have question on this subject. If your robot flips and while to upright yourself using an arm (if you have one) the robot exceeds the 72 x 72 foot print what is the penalty?

GDC
Senior Member

Default Re: <R12>72 x 72 foot print
Rule <R12> specifies that while outside of the Home Zone, the robot may not exceed 72 inches (width) by 72 inches (length). There is no exception for overturned robots.

In all cases involving a violation of this rule, the ROBOT may be disabled and/or disqualified.

[Katusha]

That whole line was super confusing . As far as I understand we can only transform in width and length in the home zone but when we're out on the field we can go as high as we want within the restriction of the cieling. Is that what everyone else got?

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Katusha

That whole line was super confusing . As far as I understand we can only transform in width and length in the home zone but when we're out on the field we can go as high as we want within the restriction of the cieling. Is that what everyone else got?

When in the home zone, you are allowed to expand as large as you want (provided you are still entirely in the home zone). When outside of your home zone, you may expand to a maximum of 72" "width" x 72" "depth".

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'm leaning toward jgannon's interpretation. I've already posted the question to the Q&A, so we'll see what the official word is.

I'm for jgannon's interpretation because BillP's reading means that the front and back of the robot is arbitrarily defined by someone other than the team. In that case specifically to the team's disadvantage. At the very least, the team should be able to decide which way is what. Saying that it would be okay on a round robot is just semantics and silliness. What if I have slightly bowed out plexi on all sides of my robot? There's no flat surface to attach the axes to there either.