The best joystick?

[Japper]

I am not sure if the joysticks that come with the kit are all that desireable or not as they seem to bounce around quite a bit towards their center (off position) when they are released from any position. (perhaps I need to build some debounce into the code to over come this from happening) but what I really want to know is:

What is the best joystick to use?


I have read some discussions on this forum about the use of the logictech game pad but our team is not sure if it wants to go the USB route because a few members are concerned about the chicklet as being unproven technology (i.e. hasn't survived a FIRST competiton yet...)

Can anyone suggest both USB and PC joystick port joystick models or are people pretty much happy with the ones that came with the kit?

Thank you for your opinions.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

If you search for 'alternate joystick' or a similar term, you'll see all sorts of topics about joysticks.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ch+flightstick
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ch+flightstick
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ch+flightstick
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ch+flightstick

As you can probably tell flom those threads, th CH flightstick is the joystick of choice, however, they're no longer made. A quick ebay search brings up these: http://search.ebay.com/flightstick_W...romZR8QQfsopZ1

[kaszeta]

Originally Posted by Japper

I am not sure if the joysticks that come with the kit are all that desireable or not as they seem to bounce around quite a bit towards their center (off position) when they are released from any position. (perhaps I need to build some debounce into the code to over come this from happening) but what I really want to know is:

What is the best joystick to use?

The time-honored basic joystick is the CH Products Flightstick, with two buttons, trim switches, throttle, and much better response than the KOP one. Alas, it's not made anymore, so you need to eBay them, or trade with other teams (they used to be in the KOPs, our team has several of them, although they are all getting battle-scarred).

One step up is the CH Flightstick Pro, which is basically the CH Products version of the kit joystick (two axis, throttle, hat, and more buttons), and the CH Fighterstick Pro has even more hats and buttons. I bought two on eBay last year for our team. And unlike the basic ambidextrous Flightstick, the Pro sticks are right-handed, which can be a concern for some control types.

There are some really nice three-axis joysticks, but it's *very* difficult finding gameport versions.


Aside number one: At Palmetto last year, a team lent us a CH Flightstick (an old KOP one) when one of ours crapped out during finals, but in the massive haste that is final rounds, nobody can recall which team. If you remember giving Team 95 a joystick during Finals at Palmetto last year, PM me and I can make sure you either get the stick back, or we repay the favor somehow.

Aside number two: Team 95 has a really slick gameport CH Products Throttle with twenty buttons and one axis on it, which we used quite successfully last year. However, we're probably not going to use it again since (a) configuring it requires a special DOS boot floppy, and (b) we're hoping the USB route is where we'll go in the future. PM me if you have a really cool use for it on your operator controls and I'll try to get it sent to you.

[dfukuba]

Joy sticks are very nice to use, but the one thing that i have found out from driving FIRST robots and Combat robots, was that.....

A joystick is fairly hard to control becausae you use your entire arm, or wrist. It also can put unwanted strain.

One thing that works very well is a small gimble that is controlled by your thumb (I.E. A video game controller)

I can see why your team is uneasy about going with that technology, but if you have the time i would play around with it. It makes things a world easier.

[gondilon]

I have a Saitek st290pro that is compatible with the chicklet that had six buttons, a throttle, twist, and a hat on it. Gives you lots of options.

[Revolverx7]

In the past my team has beefed up the springs in the kit sticks to give it a sturdier home position.

[Guy Davidson]

We're going the USB route this year. As dfukuba, our driver, eluded, we're looking to use an XBox controller this year, for less strain and similar amounts of control. And, it has more buttons, in case we ever need them.

-Guy

[newton418]

Originally Posted by dfukuba

Joy sticks are very nice to use, but the one thing that i have found out from driving FIRST robots and Combat robots, was that.....

A joystick is fairly hard to control becausae you use your entire arm, or wrist. It also can put unwanted strain.

One thing that works very well is a small gimble that is controlled by your thumb (I.E. A video game controller)

I can see why your team is uneasy about going with that technology, but if you have the time i would play around with it. It makes things a world easier.

The control and strain all depends on how you hold the joystick. Last year we used two flightsticks, and instead of holding the joystick as they are designed, I set my wrists on the base and held the joystick right above where they flare out at the bottom. This placed my hands far away from the buttons, which wasn't a big problem for us, but if it is there are teams that have modified their joysticks so the buttons were conveniently placed for this driving style.

In the end, it's driver preference. If you go with a joystick similar to the ones provided, flightsticks are by far the most widly used; however, video game controlers are becoming popular, and there are many teams that have created innovative alternatives to better suite their robot.

[whytheheckme]

I was wondering...

The chicklet has *drivers* built in for xbox 360 controllers...
Are we allowed to use WIRELESS 360 controllers? As far as I can tell from the rules, you are not allowed to use any other wireless communication from the ROBOT TO THE OI, although I could be reading this wrong.

Thoughts?

Jacob

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by whytheheckme

As far as I can tell from the rules, you are not allowed to use any other wireless communication from the ROBOT TO THE OI, although I could be reading this wrong.

I'm sure this would not be permitted. In addition to most likely violating the "no wireless" rule, it would also require the wireless controller to have a battery which is an additional no-no.

[rocknthehawk]

Originally Posted by newton418

The control and strain all depends on how you hold the joystick. Last year we used two flightsticks, and instead of holding the joystick as they are designed, I set my wrists on the base and held the joystick right above where they flare out at the bottom. This placed my hands far away from the buttons, which wasn't a big problem for us, but if it is there are teams that have modified their joysticks so the buttons were conveniently placed for this driving style.

In the end, it's driver preference. If you go with a joystick similar to the ones provided, flightsticks are by far the most widly used; however, video game controlers are becoming popular, and there are many teams that have created innovative alternatives to better suite their robot.

This is simliar to how i drive. It helps me make small moves, because our robot tends to be very sensitive.

I prefer the older black joysticks (i'm assuming these are the flightsticks?). They have been used by our team every year since we started. The white sticks (which i think are supplied now) are very sensitive, and hard for me to get used to. This year our team is contimplating using a game controller...i'm not sure if i'll like it or not yet.

[geeknerd99]

Wii controller. Hands down. Or... rather, "hands down".

Oh wait. Those are wireless. Rats.

I gotta put a vote in for the Flightsticks. Some of ours wobble too much now, so we just swap them out for ones that don't.

Now, if I could hook up my Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro, with 3 axis of movement, a throttle and an armada of buttons, and a game port plug to boot, Mecanum drive could be a lot easier.......

[rocknthehawk]

Originally Posted by geeknerd99

Wii controller. Hands down. Or... rather, "hands down".

Oh wait. Those are wireless. Rats.

I gotta put a vote in for the Flightsticks. Some of ours wobble too much now, so we just swap them out for ones that don't.

Now, if I could hook up my Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro, with 3 axis of movement, a throttle and an armada of buttons, and a game port plug to boot, Mecanum drive could be a lot easier.......

You could use the wired WII gamepad.

[Uberbots]

keep in mind when using a non-standard joystick the amperage requirements... we forwent these this year and had disaterous results.

for example... the controller outputs about 100mA of (poorly regulated) current. A standard potentiometer-based controller uses about .05 mA per axis. however, when we switched to an encoder-based controller, we found out that the current requirements were much higher, weighing in at 20mA per axis. One pair of joysticks easily overcame the limit, and actually fried our 2004 OI (rip) through over testing. the results were flaky as well, while the controller still worked. so remember to be careful

[artdutra04]

If you don't like the KoP joysticks, just replace the handles with much lighter ones and all your "bouncy" problems are solved. The standard, non- ambidextrous handles weigh a lot, which causes the joystick to become "bouncy". By using lighter handles, the KoP joysticks will instantly spring back to center if released. Voila, problem solved!

Team 228 has used custom handles for the KoP joysticks for the past two years. Once you replace the handles with lighter ambidextrous ones, they perform quite well.





You can read a lot more about this, and the process used to make these handles here in this post. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...48&postcount=3)