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Unread 20-01-2007, 23:24
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaeamdar View Post
Our mentors have told us that normal operation of the wheels places significant wear and tear on the wheels such that you really should use the steel sprockets. However, if you know this isn't the case, could you elaborate further?
The wheels use rather large sprockets, with many teeth, and usually the chain wraps more than half way around the sprocket, so the load on each tooth is relatively small. The aluminum sprockets are strong enough for use on wheels, and the smallest size you can commonly get is 24 teeth, I believe.

However, the transmission sprockets are a different story. Some use as few as 9 teeth, so the load per tooth is significantly higher.

The general way of doing things is to use steel sprockets at the drive end of the chain, and aluminum sprockets at the wheel end of the chain. It works.
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Unread 21-01-2007, 00:50
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

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Originally Posted by Ben Piecuch View Post
After a couple quick emails, I was able to find several teams in the area that were willing to help me with our broaching needs. Turn-around time was 1 day! Try to find that with any other supplier!

So, even though YOU do not have the resources, there are over 1,000 other teams out there that just may. Don't be afraid to ask another team for help. The broaching took an hour of their time, and they were more than willing to actually do the work for me. (I had to fight them off...)
Ben, that is exactly on-point. One of the things that every new team learns is that there is always more than one way to skin a cat. Need to add more sprockets to the robot? Get additional parts similar to those in the Kit Of Parts. Can't find exact duplicates? Get one that is close enough, and work with it to allow it to be used. The sprocket doesn't have the right bolt-hole pattern? Borrow a hand drill and drill out a new one. Don't have the right skills to drill the new holes yourself? Talk to your mentors and see if they can help. They don't have the right skills? Talk to nearby teams and see if they can send someone over. They can't make it? Take it over to them and see if they can do it on site..... etc etc etc

There are lots of ways to get things done. It takes some perseverance, creativity, and innovation, but one of the great things about FIRST is that there is a tremendous community out there to help you make it happen if you can't do it all yourself. My fundamental point is that before you have to resort to buying your a way out of a problem, make sure that you really tap all the resources that you have at your disposal. Some of them may not be obvious at first, but they are there and can add to your experience.

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Unread 21-01-2007, 10:03
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

One untapped resource could be a "KOP sprockets wanted" post on CD....my guess is many teams are not using them, and there are literally several hundred of those sprockets sitting on shelves and in boxes going unused, right now, as we speak. I personally know of a pair of sprockets, but I don't have authority to give them away.

You migth check the rules first though, as the parts might not be available for sale anywhere, so using "free" ones might not be allowed.
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Unread 23-01-2007, 17:32
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
One untapped resource could be a "KOP sprockets wanted" post on CD....my guess is many teams are not using them, and there are literally several hundred of those sprockets sitting on shelves and in boxes going unused, right now, as we speak. I personally know of a pair of sprockets, but I don't have authority to give them away.

You migth check the rules first though, as the parts might not be available for sale anywhere, so using "free" ones might not be allowed.
As I read <R43> it would prohibit the use of extra "kit" 24 tooth sprockets obtained from other teams, since that part is apparently not a COTS component. A team that is considering using more than two of the "kit" 24 tooth sprockets (i.e., using more than the quantity included in the 2007 kit) should post a question on the official Q&A site to see if this will be allowed.
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Unread 23-01-2007, 22:30
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Wow, it's nice to see I could come up with a tough question, without even trying
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Unread 25-01-2007, 21:03
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
As I read <R43> it would prohibit the use of extra "kit" 24 tooth sprockets obtained from other teams, since that part is apparently not a COTS component. A team that is considering using more than two of the "kit" 24 tooth sprockets (i.e., using more than the quantity included in the 2007 kit) should post a question on the official Q&A site to see if this will be allowed.
Good catch, Richard.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1834

Quote:
Originally Posted by Official Q&A
The sprockets provided in the 2007 Kit of Parts were custom manufactured for FIRST and are not COTS parts. As such, only the two 24-tooth sprockets received in the Kit may be used on your Robot. Teams are welcome to fabricate equivalent parts from COTS items.
Looks like any teams who have borrowed kit sprockets from others are going to have to find an alternate solution.
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Unread 25-01-2007, 21:35
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik View Post
Good catch, Richard.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Official Q&A
The sprockets provided in the 2007 Kit of Parts were custom manufactured for FIRST and are not COTS parts. As such, only the two 24-tooth sprockets received in the Kit may be used on your Robot. Teams are welcome to fabricate equivalent parts from COTS items.
Looks like any teams who have borrowed kit sprockets from others are going to have to find an alternate solution.
When did you see this, Karthik?

I just tried the link above and got "you do not have permission to access this page".
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I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research.
(Cosmic Religion : With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931) by Albert Einstein, p. 97)
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Unread 25-01-2007, 21:37
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
When did you see this, Karthik?

I just tried the link above and got "you do not have permission to access this page".
Weird, I got the same message. I saw it just after 9:00 pm.
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:: Karthik Kanagasabapathy ::
"Enthusiasm is one of the most powerful engines of success. When you do a thing, do it with all your might. Put your whole soul into it. Stamp it with your own personality. Be active, be energetic, be enthusiastic and faithful and you will accomplish your object. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm" -- R.W. Emerson
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Unread 25-01-2007, 21:52
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Also, it seems that what Karthik pasted is directly in contradiction with another Q&A, which asked where to obtain KOP sprockets.
Quote:
Altenately, you may want to check with some nearby teams and see if they will be using these parts. Many teams choose not to use the Kit Of Parts-supplied drive system, and may have them as spares (note that if you do obtain them from another team, they still must be fully accounted for the in Robot Bill Of Materials).
I don't think I'm reading between the lines here... that definitely would mean to me that you could use additional KOP sprockets, so long as you accounted for them.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1508
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Unread 25-01-2007, 22:47
Justin M. Justin M. is offline
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Just a tip we found out today:

When using the IFI sprockets on the kit wheels, make some type of spacer to have the sprocket jut-out a bit. Otherwise the chain will rub against the tread of the tire. The sprockets in the kit have spacers machined into them, and we didn't notice until today when we actually assembled them.
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Unread 25-01-2007, 23:18
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

The ifi sprockets come with the spacers....aka "sprocket mounting hardware"

http://www.ifirobotics.com/sprockets.shtml
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Unread 25-01-2007, 23:34
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
The ifi sprockets come with the spacers....aka "sprocket mounting hardware"

http://www.ifirobotics.com/sprockets.shtml
I didnt use them. I used 8-32 nuts and bolts (didn't want to tap the hubs), and the included spacers won't give the sprocket a snug fit (bore is too big). All I did was use screwed on 8-32 bolts as a "spacer".
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Unread 26-01-2007, 09:58
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgannon View Post
Also, it seems that what Karthik pasted is directly in contradiction with another Q&A, which asked where to obtain KOP sprockets.

I don't think I'm reading between the lines here... that definitely would mean to me that you could use additional KOP sprockets, so long as you accounted for them.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1508
The link Karthik posted earlier (http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1834) is accessible this morning.

I read the one jgannon posted as allowing KoP sprockets obtained from other teams to be used as spares, not as additional parts.
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Unread 26-01-2007, 15:46
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
The link Karthik posted earlier (http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1834) is accessible this morning.
This is a tough ruling for a lot of rookies to swallow. I know of many kitbot teams who have gotten these kit sprockets from veterans in order to upgrade to 4 or 6 wheel drive. Since there's a good amount of rookies who don't read the Q&A, it's probably a good idea for all those veterans who donated sprockets to remind those who they donated them to, that the sprockets are now not legal for use. I'd hate to see teams show up at the first regional, only to discover that they need to replace 2-4 of their wheel sprockets.
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My TEDx Talk - The Subtle Secrets of Success
Full disclosure: I work for IFI and VEX Robotics, and am the Chairman of the VEX Robotics and VEX IQ Game Design Committees
.
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Unread 26-01-2007, 16:51
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Re: Mystery Sprockets

I agree with Karthik, this is a tough ruling for many teams. Veterans who have donated these parts to other teams should do as he suggests and make sure the word gets out.

As others have suggested, one easy solution for teams that need a quick alternative to additional KoP sprockets is IFI's 35A24 kit (scroll down to Drivetrain Sprocket Specifications) for $9.99.
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(Cosmic Religion : With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931) by Albert Einstein, p. 97)
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