Go to Post Yes, it is fun. Its fun to watch the students expand their thinking and look outside the "normal" and watch their thoughts explode! Its also fun to watch the mentor's minds fry trying to out think the students.;) - Robert Cawthon [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Motors
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-01-2007, 21:18
Joe G.'s Avatar
Joe G. Joe G. is online now
Taking a few years (mostly) off
AKA: Josepher
no team (Formerly 1687, 5400)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 1,453
Joe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Joe G.
2 CIMs -- practical?

Looking around these forums, I have seen a lot of teams complaining that they cannot use the 2-motor transmissions from past years. Also, every drive setup I have seen this year uses a 2 motor transmission. I am wondering if using 2 CIMs with the new transmissions is a practical way to drive a robot, seeing as it has only 1/2 the motor power of many past/present robots. I relize it won't win any pushing matches, but can it push itself with 2 CIMs with the new transmissions?
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-01-2007, 21:21
Dominicano0519's Avatar
Dominicano0519 Dominicano0519 is offline
My team is not competing this year
AKA: Demolition Man
FRC #0381 (Tornadoes)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Trenton
Posts: 165
Dominicano0519 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via MSN to Dominicano0519 Send a message via Yahoo to Dominicano0519
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

but there are parts you can buy for the gearboxes that allow you to place two cims on one gearbox( banebots.com). and you can have a max of 4- 2 1/2 " cims
that makes for a very nice 4 cim motor robot
__________________
Favorite Phrases:
1. I like your robot, no-homo
2. "It depends how you define alone" ( Bill Clinton when being questioned about Monica Lewinsky)
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-01-2007, 21:22
Kevin Sevcik's Avatar
Kevin Sevcik Kevin Sevcik is offline
(Insert witty comment here)
FRC #0057 (The Leopards)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,744
Kevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Sevcik Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin Sevcik
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

Teams have run for years with only 2 CIMs driving the robot. There's plenty of power there to move your robot.
__________________
The difficult we do today; the impossible we do tomorrow. Miracles by appointment only.

Lone Star Regional Troubleshooter
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-01-2007, 21:59
KTorak's Avatar
KTorak KTorak is offline
Fire Rescue 47
AKA: Kyle Dersch
FRC #1023 (Bedford Express)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Montgomery Village, MD
Posts: 899
KTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond reputeKTorak has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to KTorak
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

Having 2 CIMs is a little bit of an insurance policy because if something was to happen to one CIM (anything from loose wire, to victor failure, to total failure), you still have another CIM to drive with for the rest of the match.
__________________
Kyle D- Myspace - Facebook
2008 Bedford Express Driver & Build & Design (Team) Co-Leader
2007 Bedford Express Driver & Build & Design (Team) Leader
2006 Bedford Express Driver, Build Team Member, & Board of Directors
2005 Bedford Express Rookie, Build Team Member & Robot Operator
-
2008 - GLR Quarter Finalist
2007 - GLR Finalist & Boilermaker Finalist & MARC Off Season Event Winner
2006 - GLR Johnson & Johnson Sportsmanship Award & Archimedes 7th Seed Quarter Finalist
2005 - GLR Finalist & Judges Award.
2004 - GLR Semi Finalist.
2003 - GLR/DTR Quarter Finalist & GLR/NAT'L Rookie All Star.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-01-2007, 22:05
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is offline
TSIMFD
AKA: Sean Lavery
FRC #1712 (DAWGMA)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,654
Lil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Lil' Lavery
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

Many teams have run off of a single motor on each "side" for years. Especially teams who are not designing to be involved in pushing matches
__________________
Being correct doesn't mean you don't have to explain yourself.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-01-2007, 22:08
Cody Carey's Avatar
Cody Carey Cody Carey is offline
,':-)
AKA: C. Carey
FRC #0306 (CRT)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Corry, PA
Posts: 1,137
Cody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cody Carey Send a message via Yahoo to Cody Carey
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

A one CIM Dewalt gearbox, when in low gear, can still be in a pushing match... and win
__________________
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-01-2007, 22:09
Joe G.'s Avatar
Joe G. Joe G. is online now
Taking a few years (mostly) off
AKA: Josepher
no team (Formerly 1687, 5400)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 1,453
Joe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Joe G.
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

Thanks guys, I think we'll be going with 1 CIM per side due to weight/time/budget constraints. Just wanted to make sure we wouldn't do the first drive test with everything installed and find the robot struggling to move.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-01-2007, 22:30
Joel J's Avatar
Joel J Joel J is offline
do you..
no team
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,445
Joel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond reputeJoel J has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

AndyMark sells single speed transmissions for a reasonable price ($98), and the upgrade pack to use two CIMs on the kit transmission is $42.50 from banebots.com . I don't know how well either of these options work, but you can do a forum search on them to see what others think.

If you are just using two motors, then you probably can't gear the robot for too high a speed, or use too grippy a tire, unless you don't care about breaking your wheels loose before you stall the motors.
__________________
Joel Johnson

Division By Zero (229) Alumni, 2003-2007
RAGE (173) Alumni, 1999-2003
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-01-2007, 22:34
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is offline
TSIMFD
AKA: Sean Lavery
FRC #1712 (DAWGMA)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,654
Lil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Lil' Lavery
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel J. View Post
If you are just using two motors, then you probably can't gear the robot for too high a speed, or use too grippy a tire, unless you don't care about breaking your wheels loose before you stall the motors.
If I were using traction wheels or too high a speed with only a 2-motor drive system, I'd be more worried about blowing a fuse than stalling out my motors.
__________________
Being correct doesn't mean you don't have to explain yourself.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-01-2007, 08:10
Daniel_LaFleur's Avatar
Daniel_LaFleur Daniel_LaFleur is offline
Mad Scientist
AKA: Me
FRC #2040 (DERT)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 1,980
Daniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Daniel_LaFleur
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

When using a 2 motor skid steer (tank steering) drive system there is a number of things you need to consider.

1> Traction of your tires: too much traction means you cannot steer.
2> Wheelbase: The longer your wheelbase, the more power you'll need to turn.
3> Pushing: most robots out there will be able to push your robot around.

To avoid some of this you can:
1> use omniwheels on either the front or back set of wheels as this lowers your sideways traction.
2> use casters on front or back (same as above).
3> use High traction wheels in the back and low traction wheels in the front.
4> Change the orientation of the frame to shorten the wheelbase.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-01-2007, 08:37
Joe Johnson's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Joe Johnson Joe Johnson is offline
Engineer at Medrobotics
AKA: Dr. Joe
FRC #0088 (TJ2)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Raynham, MA
Posts: 2,648
Joe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

I used to be in the 1 CIM per side is enough camp. BUT... ...with the growth of motors in the FIRST KOP, the balance of powers has changed and so too my opinion.

2 CIMs per side is not a must have but it is a very big advantage. And not just in order to "win a pushing match" Yes it can help with that but I have come to believe that the #1 reason is it is a benefit is that it gives you 2 40Amp breakers to push to their limits vs. only 1 40Amp breaker. The power out of the motor (especially the CIMs) is more often limited by the current it can draw than the physics of the motor.

This double path for current is a huge help in accelerating and in turning.

I have been out of FIRST too long to know how I would really choose if push came to shove, but I may actually end up in the 3 motors w/o shifting camp.

Again, I have come to this mostly as a result of the plethera of good powerful motors in the kit. With fewer motors to pick from in the KOP, I would likely choose differently.

Joe J.
__________________
Joseph M. Johnson, Ph.D., P.E.
Mentor
Team #88, TJ2
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-01-2007, 09:24
Brandon Holley's Avatar
Brandon Holley Brandon Holley is offline
Chase perfection. Catch excellence.
AKA: Let's bring CD back to the way it used to be
FRC #0125 (NU-TRONs, Team #11 Alumni (GO MORT))
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,593
Brandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Holley has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Brandon Holley
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

DOesnt anyone remember teh days of 1 drill motor per side?? And when CIMs were called Chipawas...lol, the good ol days.
__________________
MORT (Team 11) '01-'05 :
-2005 New Jersey Regional Chairman's Award Winners
-2013 MORT Hall of Fame Inductee

NUTRONs (Team 125) '05-???
2007 Boston Regional Winners
2008 & 2009 Boston Regional Driving Tomorrow's Technology Award
2010 Boston Regional Creativity Award
2011 Bayou Regional Finalists, Innovation in Control Award, Boston Regional Finalists, Industrial Design Award
2012 New York City Regional Winners, Boston Regional Finalists, IRI Mentor of the Year
2013 Orlando Regional Finalists, Industrial Design Award, Boston Regional Winners, Pine Tree Regional Finalists
2014 Rhode Island District Winners, Excellence in Engineering Award, Northeastern University District Winners, Industrial Design Award, Pine Tree District Chairman's Award, Pine Tree District Winners
2015 South Florida Regional Chairman's Award, NU District Winners, NEDCMP Industrial Design Award, Hopper Division Finalists, Hopper/Newton Gracious Professionalism Award
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-01-2007, 12:13
DavidGitz's Avatar
DavidGitz DavidGitz is offline
Lead Technical Advisor
FRC #1208 (MeTool Brigade)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 341
DavidGitz has much to be proud ofDavidGitz has much to be proud ofDavidGitz has much to be proud ofDavidGitz has much to be proud ofDavidGitz has much to be proud ofDavidGitz has much to be proud ofDavidGitz has much to be proud ofDavidGitz has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to DavidGitz Send a message via MSN to DavidGitz Send a message via Yahoo to DavidGitz
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

sure do, i was in FIRST in 96-00 before going to college.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-01-2007, 13:55
Kingofl337's Avatar
Kingofl337 Kingofl337 is offline
You didn't see anything....
AKA: Adam
FRC #0501 (Power Knights)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 861
Kingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond reputeKingofl337 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Kingofl337
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

I don't miss the Bosch drill motors and Tekin speed controls.
__________________
FIRST Team 501 PowerKnights - Mentor
FIRST Team 40 Checkmate - Mentor Alum
FIRST Team 146 Blue Lightning - Alumni
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-01-2007, 14:00
MOE's Avatar
MOE MOE is offline
Registered User
FRC #0088 (TJ2)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: Jensen Beach FL 34957
Posts: 164
MOE is a splendid one to beholdMOE is a splendid one to beholdMOE is a splendid one to beholdMOE is a splendid one to beholdMOE is a splendid one to beholdMOE is a splendid one to beholdMOE is a splendid one to behold
Re: 2 CIMs -- practical?

YEP in 96 we used the old seat motor with chain drive and 8" wood wheels had to ice the motors after each round. Dont think it would work NOW. We now use 2CIMs per side and do not have any problems. GOOD LUCK TO ALL see you sooooooon
MOE TEAM 88 TJ2
__________________
"Learn skills today with FIRST for tomorrow's JOBS" MOE
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Inductance of CIMs phrontist Electrical 13 06-01-2006 09:17
Modifying CIMs to implode? dlavery Motors 44 13-02-2005 11:51
Drill+CIMs kevin.li.rit Motors 2 10-01-2004 16:29
Practical Jokes & Mr. M Jack Chit-Chat 1 21-04-2003 13:40
a practical first mike pawlak Rumor Mill 8 23-04-2002 19:38


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:42.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi