Important Q/A forum responses

[Joe Ross]

Referees will not wait until everything on the field comes to a rest to figure out the score: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1604

[Elgin Clock]

Apparently the GDC has a bad sense of humor.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...light=pressure

If a rookie team asked this I'm sure they would get a straight answer.
But seeing as it was 3 teams who have been in FIRST for 5+ years then I think this was an example of sarcasm.

Not cool.

edit: Looking at the title of this thread, I'm guessing this answer would more suit a thread named "Unimportant Q/A Forum Responses"

[jgannon]

To follow up on Elgin's Unimportant Responses idea, take a look at this one:

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1508

It's a little surprising that this question was asked six times, and it still wasn't really answered. I'm guessing that most teams have figured out that stores do indeed sell sprockets, but that they're interested in buying the exact sprockets that are in the kit, so they don't have to do "minor additional machining (broaching keyways, enlarging bores, etc.)". Is there any reason for FIRST to be beating around the bush with this one?

[Ricky Q.]

Saw this answered today:

Q:We were wondering if we could hang signs during Regional Competition where our team is sitting?
A:No. As stated in section 3.11.3, teams cannot hang banners in the competition area. This area is designated for official FIRST sponsors' banners. Teams may only hang banners in their own personal team station (within the pit).

I'm sure that will be interesting.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Ricky Q.

Saw this answered today:

Q:We were wondering if we could hang signs during Regional Competition where our team is sitting?
A:No. As stated in section 3.11.3, teams cannot hang banners in the competition area. This area is designated for official FIRST sponsors' banners. Teams may only hang banners in their own personal team station (within the pit).

I'm sure that will be interesting.

It's the same rule every year. And every year regionals have team banners hanging everywhere. I'm not going to speak on the beaten-to-death-topic of teams showing disregard for this rule, but if regionals and the championship are continually decked out with banners which stay up for the entirety of the event, why is this rule in the rulebook ever year?

On another note, we have to ship 2 batteries this year.

However, it is perfectly acceptable to bring the rest of your batteries in a car.
Does anyone here have any insight why we must ship the 2?

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1683

[Billfred]

Edit: I missed a key part of <R11>, the part under the box. I still don't like some of these rules, but I've struck out the erroneous parts.

I normally go with the flow when it comes to Q&A, but this new direction they're taking with the fabrication rules are getting highly irritating.

Irritation #1: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...=3878#post3878

Under Rule <R11> the Operator Console is considered part of the Robot, and all associated rules apply. Rule <R35> prohibits the use of adhesive tape, except under certain circumstances. If the use of the tape on the Operator Console is not permitted by one of these exceptions, then it can not be used.

<R11> says, in part:

<R11> For the purposes of determining compliance with the weight and volume limitations specified
in Rule <R07>, these items are NOT considered part of the ROBOT and are NOT included
in the weight and volume assessment of the ROBOT:
...
 The OPERATOR CONSOLE.

I read further, thinking I missed something in the Robot section of the manual, and could not find any part of the manual definitively saying that the OPERATOR CONSOLE is part of the robot. Further language in the manual seems to indicate the opposite:

<R18> During the Build Season: ... When the ROBOT shipment deadline arrives, all work on the
ROBOT must cease and the ROBOT must be placed in a “hands-off” condition. The entire
ROBOT (including all FABRICATED ITEMS intended for use during the competition in
alternative configurations of the ROBOT) and OPERATOR CONSOLE must be crated and
out of team hands by the shipment deadline specified in Section 4.5.1.1.

It seems like if they're going to go this route (which, in my humble opinion, is more frustration than anything), a further update to the manual would be required.

Irritation #2: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...=3897#post3897

During the match the flag must remain approximately vertical. If it is mounted to a body part that tilts significantly, then this is not an appropriate mounting point.

The intent of Rule <R15> is that during the majority of match play the flag is the tallest point on the robot, so that it may be easily seen and the alliance assignment of the robot may be easily determined. If an appendage or manipulator spends most of the match higher than the flag, then this is not a "temporary" condition. This would be considered a violation of Rule <R15>, and would need to be corrected before the robot would be allowed to play in another match.

This one obviously rules out some past designs, but I sincerely hope their view of "temporary" will be one of those much-feared subjective situations. I'm telling my drivers to keep their arm down as long as they can safely do it.

Irritation #3: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...=3897#post3897

Per Rule <R11> and Section 4.2, the two 12V batteries supplied in the kit must ship with the robot. Any additional batteries you purchase as spares may be either brought to the event, or shippped with the robot.

Now, I will concede that the 12V battery is part of the robot. But somebody tell me, what's the benefit to this rule? While most everything else has changed with the batteries, I can't see why we can't put them in the trunk of the car Thursday morning like the past two (or three, or maybe more) seasons.

This sure seems to be the season of seemingly odd rule changes.

[SamC]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Irritation #3: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...=3897#post3897

Now, I will concede that the 12V battery is part of the robot. But somebody tell me, what's the benefit to this rule? While most everything else has changed with the batteries, I can't see why we can't put them in the trunk of the car Thursday morning like the past two (or three, or maybe more) seasons.

This sure seems to be the season of seemingly odd rule changes.

Possibly this is to keep from the rare possibility that a team may forget to bring it the day that they are traveling. Or, if a team must travel by air, some teams may have trouble getting their batteries to the regional/championship venue (i think 1 of our extra batteries were sent back by security on our way to Atlanta last year...).

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Irritation #3: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...=3897#post3897



Now, I will concede that the 12V battery is part of the robot. But somebody tell me, what's the benefit to this rule? While most everything else has changed with the batteries, I can't see why we can't put them in the trunk of the car Thursday morning like the past two (or three, or maybe more) seasons.

This sure seems to be the season of seemingly odd rule changes.

This season, a lot of rules are costing veteran teams a lot of money. Our crate just squeaked in under the weight limit with only the robot in it last year. Now we have to put the controls in it. Okay, our robot is 10 lbs lighter, so we'll still squeak it. But now we have to put the batteries in it? Goodbye Ben Franklin.

Oh well, FIRST isn't cheap. Whadayagonnado?

[Kevin Sevcik]

Irritation #4
Regarding <R29>:

The long dimension is the greatest of the height, width, or depth measurements. If a robot is particularly short (e.g. the height is less than the length), then it must start the match "on-end" in order to comply with this rule. If such a robot can not be designed to flop down, you may consider installing a post, bracket, etc that increases the vertical dimension of the robot (and upon which the flag holder may be mounted).

The GDC has just made the kit-bot illegal and/or, utterly useless as built out of the box. I refuse to speculate on the reasoning here, for fear of losing my sanity. I have no idea why the whole "fit in a 28" x 38" x something box with something dimension vertical" paradigm wouldn't work this year.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Irritation #4
Regarding <R29>:The GDC has just made the kit-bot illegal and/or, utterly useless as built out of the box. I refuse to speculate on the reasoning here, for fear of losing my sanity. I have no idea why the whole "fit in a 28" x 38" x something box with something dimension vertical" paradigm wouldn't work this year.

This is quite odd. I mean, there's a lot of rules that we can say "are part of the game challenge" but, this is like the "gotta touch the triangle" thing of 05. It is gonna add ugliness to a fair number of robots out there. If it isn't dangling strings from their front frame rail,it is ugly sticks rising from their centers. I think this is probably aimed at discouraging teams from fielding a rolling box whose soll purpose is to get in the way of other robots, but if a tall stick satisfies this requirement...

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Irritation #4
Regarding <R29>:The GDC has just made the kit-bot illegal and/or, utterly useless as built out of the box. I refuse to speculate on the reasoning here, for fear of losing my sanity. I have no idea why the whole "fit in a 28" x 38" x something box with something dimension vertical" paradigm wouldn't work this year.

Perhaps the GDC is tired of seeing a lot of knee-high motorized brick-bats charging wildly around the playing field?

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Richard

Perhaps the GDC is tired of seeing a lot of knee-high motorized brick-bats charging wildly around the playing field?

This would make sense except they turn around and give simple suggestions for how to make these robots legal in about 10 minutes. So I really just don't know what we're going for here.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I read further, thinking I missed something in the Robot section of the manual, and could not find any part of the manual definitively saying that the OPERATOR CONSOLE is part of the robot.

You need to read ALL of <R11>.

[rocknthehawk]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

This is quite odd. I mean, there's a lot of rules that we can say "are part of the game challenge" but, this is like the "gotta touch the triangle" thing of 05. It is gonna add ugliness to a fair number of robots out there. If it isn't dangling strings from their front frame rail,it is ugly sticks rising from their centers. I think this is probably aimed at discouraging teams from fielding a rolling box whose soll purpose is to get in the way of other robots, but if a tall stick satisfies this requirement...

I agree with you 100%. I like to see good looking robots....but with a random stick out of no where to hold a flag? I understand the reasoning (ok...only a little) But it especially complicates the design of robots with ramps, as now teams need to place their flag holder somewhere, and hope a team driving up the ramp doesn't take it out.

Last year we had to go to home depot and get PVC and make a new flag holder because ours was an inch too short. Seriously, like it was going to affect our performance....maybe we would have been first seed instead of second if we didn't have that inch....

[Richard Wallace]

This response is interesting. I don't think it is a departure from standard practice since Q&A was introduced, but it does clarify how Q&A responses are to be used at events; i.e., as guidance.

Originally Posted by GDC

The answers given in the Q&A are guidance only. Inspectors and referees will use the current revisions of the documents on the FIRST website 2007 FIRST Robotics Competition Manual and related documents page to perform their jobs at competitions. FIRST updates these documents in Team Updates if a question or answer on the Q&A requires. The same guidance given in the Q&A is given in inspector and referee training.