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Unread 24-01-2007, 11:19
Mr. Van Mr. Van is offline
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Re: Team Update #5 Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan Lall View Post
Despite that, judging by these two Q&A responses and the update, it seems that the intention of the rulemakers was to ban those old Parker cylinders. To keep things consistent, <R106> therefore ought to also be amended to include something similar to the last sentence of <R105> (stating that even non-purchased, ex-KOP cylinders need to be the same as the ones in the current Bimba form). If that amendment is made to <R106>, the inconsistency will disappear, because the non-purchased ex-KOP Parkers will become explicitly illegal.
Is that the intent here? No Parker cylinders from previous years? If that is the intent, then the first bullet of <R106> is completely redundant since any of the items listed there would be covered by <R24>.

We have nearly all of the pneumatics components that were in any of the previous year's kits - and we use 'em. (We used a 2001 cylinder on our 2005 robot.) We just want to be sure that we are within the rules!

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599
The RoboDox
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Unread 24-01-2007, 12:29
JohnBoucher JohnBoucher is offline
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Re: Team Update #5 Posted

I like the scoring simulator. Nice to give us a tool like that.
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Unread 30-01-2007, 09:00
Tom Bottiglieri Tom Bottiglieri is offline
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Re: Team Update #5 Posted

Ok, so you can buy new pneumatic cylinders, or you can use old ones. Where is the complication? One point doesn't detract from the other.

This lawyering needs to stop! Just build a robot and have a good time.
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Unread 30-01-2007, 09:13
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Re: Team Update #5 Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri View Post
This lawyering needs to stop! Just build a robot and have a good time.
Someone said what I was thinking! Finally. This is the complete truth. There is so much, 'if i think this, im right' 'but if i think that, im wrong'. This has to be the worst year, of my three years of experience where people are trying to argue the rule in favor of themself. No, I do not mean that everyone has this intent either. However, the rules simply have not changed alot from previous years, and I will agree that some are unfair, while others are very beneficial. However, there is no need to (stealing from Tom here) lawyer the rules. I can guarantee that if an inspector says that you are in violation of rules, and you try to argue with them without say a specific Q&A response allowing your instance, you most likely will not pass inspection. The rules are not per your interpretation, rather the people who wrote them, FIRST.
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Unread 30-01-2007, 17:49
Mr. Van Mr. Van is offline
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Re: Team Update #5 Posted

Ok, now I'm confuesed - and rather upset.

We just completed our 3 cylinder order from Bimba - ordering three cylinders that are the same bore and stroke as previous kit PARKER cylinders that we already have. Why? Because update #5 makes these Parker cylinders illegal.

Update #5 states that:
"~ Under Rule<R105>, the only pneumatic cylinders permitted are those that are identical to the Bimba Custom Cylinder Order form found on the last page of the Pneumatics Manual."

The FIRST Manual rule <R105> states that:
"...additional air cylinders or rotary actuators may be purchased. However, they must be identical to those listed on the Pneumatic Components Order form (i.e. same part numbers), and obtained from a Bimba or Parker Hannifan distributor."

The rule is quoted numerous times by the GDC in the Q&A forums. They go further to say:
"...and you may NOT use purchased cylinders that are not IDENTICAL to those found on the Custom Cylinders Order Form." (emphasis in original post)

PARKER cylinders do NOT have the same part numbers as BIMBA cylinders.
They are NOT "IDENTICAL" (the piston shaft, for example appears to be stainless on the Parker and steel on the Bimba). Therefore, Parker cylinders are NOT legal parts.

Is there any other way to interpret this?

No matter what, I can see that teams will be upset at inspection time - either at having to swap out old Parkers or at learning that they didn't really have to take the rules literally...

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599
RoboDox

PS. I now very much wish that I hadn't deleted my earlier post!
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