Keepers in Teleoperated mode

[burkey_turkey]

so the rules make it very obcious that keepers placed after autonomous are 'ignored during the scoring'. my question is, if a keeper is placed on the rack after autonomous, thus making it useless, and a ringer is placed over the keeper during the match, will this count for whichever team has placed the ringer?

the reason i ask this is because of the rule about only 2 tubes on a leg at a time. if a worthless keeper is below a ringer, then that leg is basically a keeper because it cannot be spiled (because it would require a third tube)

there is probably a rule somewhere that talks about something like this or gives a penalty for the placement of keepers after autonomous but i overlooked it. i apreciate any responses because the stratgey could proove effective if legal

[Kristian Calhoun]

You're right in that the keeper placed after autonomous would not count, only the outermost ringer. The last page of section 7 of the manual has a nice little chart on tube placement and how it would be scored, here's an excerpt:

[Fred Sayre]

Originally Posted by burkey_turkey

there is probably a rule somewhere that talks about something like this or gives a penalty for the placement of keepers after autonomous but i overlooked it. i apreciate any responses because the stratgey could proove effective if legal

Read the rules! It is easy to open them up and do a quick search.

<G14> Late KEEPERS - After the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD ends, ROBOTS may not HANG any
KEEPERS for the remainder of the match. Any KEEPERS that a ROBOT may POSSESS
must be immediately released and dropped to the floor. If necessary, referees may validate
placement of KEEPERS during the pause following the end of the AUTONOMOUS
PERIOD. The referees may remove any KEEPERS that are not HANGING. If a ROBOT
HANGS a KEEPER after the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD, it will result in a disqualification. If
the “late KEEPER” is placed on a SPIDER LEG on which an opposing RINGER is already
HANGING, the “late KEEPER” will be ignored during the calculation of the match score. If
the “late KEEPER” is placed on a SPIDER LEG on which a RINGER from the same alliance
is already HANGING, the two will cancel each other and both will be ignored when
determining if the SPIDER LEG is SCORED. Note: as RINGERS and SPOILERS can be
HANGING only after the end of the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD, any KEEPERS HANGING on
a SPIDER LEG after a RINGER or SPOILER will automatically be determined to be a “late
KEEPER.”

[dtengineering]

Teams that do not drop their keepers immediately after the start of teleoperated mode are penalized, I believe, by disqualification (rule G14)

I am sure you will discover lots of other things, too, if you actually read the manual before posting.

Jason

[gillejr]

Ok I read through rule G14 and it does not say exactly what will happen to a robot who does not drop a keeper once autonomous period is over. It says the keeper must be dropped, but what is the penalty?

Also another question, the rule G04 does not state exactly what will happen penality wise if a robot does not start with a keeper at the begining of the autonomous period. Say if the keeper falls off the robot before the match begins.

[Nicole_N]

Are the keepers just used durring the autonmous mode or durring the whole game?

[s_forbes]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

Teams that do not drop their keepers immediately after the start of teleoperated mode are penalized, I believe, by disqualification (rule G14)

My interpretation of the rules (which may be wrong) is that you are only penalized if you actually score the keeper after autonomous. I think it would be silly to disqualify a team because a keeper somehow got stuck on them during autonomous mode.

Dropping it is necessary, though, because if you are holding onto it then you are not allowed to pick up any other tubes, rendering your team useless.

[vic burg]

Originally Posted by Nicole_N

Are the keepers just used durring the autonmous mode or durring the whole game?

The keepers, the one that say "FIRST" on them, are only used during autonomous. Since there is only one per team. The other red and blue plain ones are used during the whole game. And the spoilers, the black ones, are in the last 15 seconds, after the warning noise.

[DanDon]

Originally Posted by vic burg

The keepers, the one that say "FIRST" on them, are only used during autonomous. Since there is only one per team. The other red and blue plain ones are used during the whole game. And the spoilers, the black ones, are in the last 15 seconds, after the warning noise.

You can theoretically place a spoiler at any point in time. The only thing special about the end game (The last 15 seconds) is that you are not allowed in your opponents home zone.

[akshar]

Originally Posted by gillejr

Also another question, the rule G04 does not state exactly what will happen penality wise if a robot does not start with a keeper at the begining of the autonomous period. Say if the keeper falls off the robot before the match begins.

[quote= FRC Manual 07 <G04>] KEEPER locations - Each ROBOT starts the match in POSSESSION of a KEEPER. The
KEEPER does NOT need to be contained within the ROBOT'S starting volume, however it must be in contact with the ROBOT and be entirely within the HOME ZONE. The head referee will require that KEEPERS that do not meet these criteria be removed from the game. It is the responsibility of the head referee to verify that this rule is satisfied prior to the start of the match.[/]

no penalty. if you dont use a keeper it will be removed, the rule just tells you the correct way to place a keeper if your team decides to use it.
^ my interpretation of the rule

[Spencer E.]

I have a quick question about the keepers in autonomous. Say my robot does not drop the keeper right after autonomous and the operator has to drop the tube manually. Does this result in a penalty? I read through the rules and all it specifies is "Any KEEPERS that a ROBOT may POSSESS must be immediately released and dropped to the floor." which I don't understand. Does it mean immediately after the 15 seconds or immediately as in before doing anything else during the teleoperated mode. Any help would be appreciated.

[Bharat Nain]

According to a Q&A Answer in the Q&A forums - if the first thing you do once the TELEOPERATED period starts(after Autonomous - first 15 seconds of the match) is remove the keeper, then you wont be penalized. If thats not the first thing you do(definition of immediate), then you will be given a penalty.

[Spencer E.]

Do you have a link to that question? It would be nice for future reference, thanks for the quick response. I also have another quick question, say I have to turn the robot a bit to make sure the keeper doesn't get entangled in anything, will that penalize my team?

[T3_1565]

I wonder.... If your auto mode ends up with you with a keeper on a leg, but you have not let go yet. Does it count when the first thing you do is drop the keeper? Do you think it would score?

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Spencer E.

Do you have a link to that question? It would be nice for future reference, thanks for the quick response. I also have another quick question, say I have to turn the robot a bit to make sure the keeper doesn't get entangled in anything, will that penalize my team?

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=4880

AND probably not. If I were a ref, and if I saw a robot back up a tad bit and then release I'd consider that immediate. Also, it is illegal to put a keeper on in teleoperated period. Therefore, your move is justified. Also a rule of thumb, use common sense. In many cases, you will be fine.