Starting Heigh versus Shipping Height: A FIRST Trick?

[aaeamdar]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

It is noted in the manual, in the two rules you specifically stated. It's really not FIRST's fault if you don't read the manual, it's yours.
Additionally the shipping rules were published before kick-off, and stating that a crate height is lower than a possible robot height would have given away part of the upcoming game rules.

Actually, neither of the rules cross-reference. <R07> does not make any mention of Section 4.3.1, and Section 4.3.1 does not make any mention of <R07>. No one here has said why <R07> doesn't mention directly or indirectly Section 4.3.1, though you have mentioned a reason why 4.3.1 doesn't mention <R07> (though I'm not sure really that this would give away the game).

Originally Posted by dez250

First is not reading the manual. If you choose not to read the whole manual then its only your fault, not anyone else's, especially FIRST's fault.

Second is the height differences. What do you mean "couldn't actually build a 6 foot tall robot"? Just because the crate is limited to 5'10" does not mean your robot can not be 6'.

Dez,

First to answer your second point: yes, I realize that it would be possible to have a robot that had a 6' starting configuration yet also fit into a crate within a 5' 6'' space. I probably should have phrased my original post better; what I meant was that you would not be able to fit your robot into the crate without modifications; you might or might not easily be able to do this if you were rushed at the last minute.

Secondly, here's an idea: let's put this in the manual in the robot section:

<R117>: Teams must call this number: (123) 456 - 7890 and order a large pizza by January 14th or they will be disqualified from all FIRST events.

By your argument, if teams didn't read this rule and they didn't call and order a pizza, it seems that it would be their fault for not reading the entire manual. However, this is completely wrong. It would be FIRST's fault for burying important information in an obscure place in the manual.

I agree that this situation is not that situation. However, in my view (unless I'm missing something) both the FIRST manual and teams who don't read the manual are at fault. The teams because they didn't read the manual when they should have, and the manual because it was written in such a way as to unintentionally trick people.

By the way, the first thing I said was that I am a proponent of reading the manual. However, we should also realize that there will be rookie teams who are poorly organized and don't realize that they need to have at least one person read the entire manual. Should we just abandon rookie teams that are perhaps not as organized as they should be, or should we work to make the manual clear and understandable so that these teams don't have last-minute shipping crises?

Paul