Stop with the "RTFM" stuff

[Jaine Perotti]

Karthik -

I really do agree with you for the most part. There is often a lack of respect shown to those who make mistakes and it has been discussed before.

However, have you noticed a lot of people's signatures lately? Some clever person altered the acronym "RTFM" to mean "Read The FIRST Manual" - a much more polite version of the original term. Many people have adopted it and put it in their signature. It is possible that the use of "RTFM" has increased because people are embracing the new variation (possibly unaware that others might not get the reference).

In order to avoid perceived vulgarity, I think people should make it clear that they mean "Read The FIRST Manual". If they do in fact mean to use the impolite version, then yes, Karthik - they should cut it out.

[Cody Carey]

True true... A while ago I tried to do a spoof thread showing people how annoying it was, and got caught up in it. I think I may have gone too far when I photo shopped Dave's head onto a dictator's...
That particular mistake was OK, though, because we only live to learn.

ON TO THE MATTER AT HAND!


I believe that kindly telling people to Read the manual is fine, if you give the specific reference in the manual, and avoid negative repping people*. However, when you start replying with a mean "RTFM!" or a dry/sarcastic "The answer is in the manual." and serve out negative rep like Turkish delight, Then you are only serving to make things worse.

Just some thoughts,

-Cody C



* I've seen too many people with one post -a question, nonetheless- and one or two bars of negative rep. This should stop.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by BurningQuestion

In order to avoid perceived vulgarity, I think people should make it clear that they mean "Read The FIRST Manual". If they do in fact mean to use the impolite version, then yes, Karthik - they should cut it out.

Seconded. What I've done in the past is give them the answer, but also point them in the right direction as far as clarification. I wasn't trying to be rude, but it's also nice, on occaison, to be reminded of a much easier way to solve problems [one that won't have the potential to annoy others]

Essentially, it shouldn't be used as a reprimand. Just a friendly nudge.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by BurningQuestion

Karthik -
..snip..
However, have you noticed a lot of people's signatures lately? Some clever person altered the acronym "RTFM" to mean "Read The FIRST Manual" - a much more polite version of the original term. Many people have adopted it and put it in their signature. It is possible that the use of "RTFM" has increased because people are embracing the new variation (possibly unaware that others might not get the reference).
..snip..

I think the point Karthik is trying to make is that although it is commonly accepted to most of the people around here that it means "Read the FIRST Manual," it doesn't matter. We all know where the phrase was derived from, and that even though we've changed what the letter says, we haven't changed the meaning of the phrase.

However, I'm definitely for not just giving answers. If I can post any rules question I want, and people will just hand me the rule quoted, then why should I bother to read the manual. Although posting "RTFM" or any other one-liner, is counterproductive, perhaps when someone asks for an obvious the rule, the best thing would be to gently point them to the section or give them the rule number, and have them look it for themselves.

When debating though, always quote the rule in the post. It makes it easier for everyone.

[Danielle H]

Honestly, I'm only going to say this once, and it's going to be short, sweet, and to the point... I hope.

1.) Have you looked at who is asking some of the questions that are so "irritating" to you? I would be willing to bet that they are rookies, who may not have been taught what all can be found in the manual, and where exactly to look for it... most of the team members are busy on the bot, so there may not be someone to ask. Obviously, they're confused/frustrated enough with they're problem, they don't need yelling and disrespect by a fellow FIRSTer on top of all that...

2.) Be real... at one point in time, you were a rookie who didn't know a lot about what was going on and you had the same kinds of questions that people are asking. Tell them politely where to find it, but don't yell at them. FIRST is not just about building the bot... it's about gracious professionalism and building relationships with other high school students. Disrespecting them and treating them poorly is not a good example of gracious professionalism, nor is it a way to further the relationships with high school students.

Therefore, "RTFM" posts don't really comply with what FIRST is about... at all....

[65_Xero_Huskie]

I got a "RTFM" and a negative rep for making a joke.

Im glad people take things so seriously. And for the other people who dont know what something is, you dont need to yell at them, everyone was new once and it takes someone to show them.

[Danielle H]

Here is another good example of how to properly respond to a question:

Originally Posted by Mike Betts

BB,

1. A Google shows that this is the part you are referencing.

2. A search of this document reveals that it is not in the KOP this year. The Altech terminal strip is a part from many years ago.

3. Typing in all caps is usually considered to be the equivalent of shouting in the internet. You will find that people will respond better if you refrain from caps.

Regards,

Mike

This was made on the board "Terminal Block"

[VEN]

And to tell the truth saying things like "use the search function" and "RTFM" make you look like a whiner who's only interest is to correct someone and make them feel awkward. Make everyone feel welcome and answer their questions the way they would like them to be answered or at least answer their question first and say that similar information could be found if "blablabla" is typed into the search function. Otherwise you're making the thread even more useless by posting unnecessary comments.

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by VEN

And to tell the truth saying things like "use the search function" and "RTFM" make you look like a whiner who's only interest is to correct someone and make them feel awkward. Make everyone feel welcome and answer their questions the way they would like them to be answered or at least answer their question first and say that similar information could be found if "blablabla" is typed into the search function. Otherwise you're making the thread even more useless by posting unnecessary comments.

How about this: Teach them by example in your answer.

Example:
I searched ChiefDelphi.com with the words "Fisher Price Gearbox" and found the following threads that could have helped you...

The rules are broke up in a few sections. Robot rules are in Section XYZ and Game rules are in Section NMO. Your question covers both sections so you need to read both sections closely....

Being rude is easy. Being a compassionate human being takes work.

Joe J

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

Being rude is easy. Being a compassionate human being takes work.

Nice sermon...amen!

[Jeremiah Johnson]

I have often come across posts with "search first!" as the only response. I know that there are talented people on this forum that have an extreme ability to search the forum... others do not. I am one of those that don't. I don't know a thing about booleans or whatnot and am impatient when it comes down to looking through threads for a specific answer. I also hate to get told to "search first!!!!!!11!!1!one" and that's all that person has in their post. Really annoying and immature.

When I was younger, 2004 I think, I accidentally clicked the post thread button twice and I got my butt handed to me multiple times via neg rep. It was a simple mistake. Young people make mistakes. Older people make mistakes. Heck, even I make mistakes.

I've always wanted to know if there are actually people on this forum that are dead set on finding mistakes by people so they can shove them out into the road to get chewed up by the neg rep givers. It's annoying and lame. So thank you Karthik. You just did what I had been contemplating on doing for the past week or so.. just never got around to it.

The same as what I said goes for the "RTFM" posts, also.

Thank you,

-Jeremiah

[Pavan Dave]

I agree one hundred percent. Last year I asked a question about one of the parts in the KoP, and I got two negative reps with "read the manual," and although I agreed that I should have read it over again, I thought it took more time to actually type out the post and negitve rep me than it would to "CTRL+F" the awnser from a merged manual.

There is a nicer phrase if you must refer to using a phrase called "RTMP" which I have found no vulgur interpritations for which means' Read the Manual Please,' which is a bit nicer but still impolite that someone still told you too look at the manual and post rather than to take a few minutes of their time to to "help" a fellow FIRSTer.

Pavan.

[Taylor]

Hmm. I always thought RTFM meant "Rice. Toronto's Favorite Meal."

One other drawback to "RTFM" posts is that other teams may think you have answered a question. If a thread pops up that looks interesting, with say 3 or 4 responses, I'll check it out. It seems that more often than not, the first post is a question, then the next 2 or 3 are variations of "RTFM." So not only are the RTFMers being rude to the thread starter, but they're wasting the valuable time of members of other teams, not to mention the moderators.

[BandChick]

I absolutely agree with Taylor, while saying RTFM gets the point across, it doesn't help ANYONE. Katie's post was invaluable, and I thank her for it. And remember, not everyone has the time to sit and read every detail of the FIRST Manual. I garauntee there is a section in it that I don't know at all. And rather than sitting down and searching the entire manual for a small question, it's a lot easier to ask for reference from my other CDers. =)

[Matt Krass]

People often tell me their RTFM posts are because people asking redundant questions answered in the manual clutter the forums. Well here's a newsflash, posting "RTFM" and nothing else is going to bring your thread to the top of the portal, and fill it up with something truly useless.

Seriously, if you're so high up on your pedestal you can only be bothered to scold others without actually doing anything helpful, then please just shut up.

Yes, I said shut up, yes it's rude, so are the people that just say RTFM and nothing else.

If someone posts something obviously in the manual, then post the section, or their answer and a reminder to look at the manual, maybe a hint on how to found certain bits and pieces. I can say as a programmer I focused on those aspects of the manual and its a big manual, so its not always intuitive where the other stuff is, it's pretty easy to miss stuff. We can all help promote manual reading by helping people understand how to find things, and by encouraging (not berating!) them to look in the manual more deeply.

That's my two and change.