How many teams are 100% student built

[MrForbes]

You might be setting up a "false dichotomy" here. That is where you look at a situation in black and white terms, ignoring the (much more likely) middle ground.

I fully agree that having 10 adults in the pits working on the robot, and 20 students in the stands, is not a desirable situation. But I also feel that having 10 students in the pits, and one adult sitting there keeping quiet, is just as bad. Either way, there is no student-mentor interaction. How about aiming for the middle ground? Having one mentor working with perhaps 3 or 4 students at a time, discussing a robot problem, and thinking of and anylyzing ideas to fix it, can get a lot done on the robot. It also provides a valuable educational experience for both the students and the mentor.

This "either-or" mentality seems to me to be quite the opposite of what FIRST is all about. Those people who support mentor involvement with the robot design and build are not suggesting that students stay out of the process. We all know the students should be as involved with it as they can be. But students are still students, and might be wise to use the knowledge and experience of the mentors. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

[RoboMom]

FIRST is about partnerships and teamwork (as any team who has submitted a NASA grant knows). I love Woodie’s quote about the “robot being the campfire we gather around.” Mentoring is hard work, but can be one of the most meaningful experiences someone can have, for all parties involved. There is no blueprint for how to do a FIRST team, but it is always apparent by all these threads that there are a lot of mentors doing a heck of a job.
Maybe my definition is too broad but to me “100% student built” is not totally right unless the students are also doing all the fundraising, paperwork, shipping arrangements, travel, on and on. Which they are not. It takes a community to have a FIRST team, so be proud of what you have accomplished but recognize there are a lot of “non-students” who helped you get there.

[redbarron]

I am going to reply to this a second time because I believe my first post was misunderstood. I do not come from a team nor do I want to be on a team where the robot is engineer built. I believe that a engineer working with a group of 5-10 students where he/she is "HELPING" not "TAKING OVER" is o.k. When a student is stuck and cant figure it out, if the engineer goes over to help them than that is o.k. in my opinion, as long as they dont go over snatch the part up and put it on themselves. But if the engineer walks over and gives them advice or a description of how something goes on, then thats a lot better than if they were to sit there and say well I guess he/she will figure it out themselves or go on chief delphi and post a question while I sit here. Like I said before I believe that a student will learn far less by watching an engineer do the work, but I also believe that a student will learn more by working in a group of students that is working with an engineer.

[Viper37]

Originally Posted by squirrel

You might be setting up a "false dichotomy" here. That is where you look at a situation in black and white terms, ignoring the (much more likely) middle ground.

I fully agree that having 10 adults in the pits working on the robot, and 20 students in the stands, is not a desirable situation. But I also feel that having 10 students in the pits, and one adult sitting there keeping quiet, is just as bad. Either way, there is no student-mentor interaction. How about aiming for the middle ground? Having one mentor working with perhaps 3 or 4 students at a time, discussing a robot problem, and thinking of and anylyzing ideas to fix it, can get a lot done on the robot. It also provides a valuable educational experience for both the students and the mentor.

This "either-or" mentality seems to me to be quite the opposite of what FIRST is all about. Those people who support mentor involvement with the robot design and build are not suggesting that students stay out of the process. We all know the students should be as involved with it as they can be. But students are still students, and might be wise to use the knowledge and experience of the mentors. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

I fully agree. Well put.

[FunkyRatDemon]

753 is kid built, however our mentors show us how to make parts and program the machines to do so...