Banebot 56mm gearbox - double D - RELOADED

[travis]

Lockheed Martin seems to be in the mood to detemine the carrier plate alloy. I found a sympathetic lab manager that has at his disposal all the NDE equipment we use making the space shuttle external tank. Are people still interested in this?

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by travis

Lockheed Martin seems to be in the mood to detemine the carrier plate alloy. I found a sympathetic lab manager that has at his disposal all the NDE equipment we use making the space shuttle external tank. Are people still interested in this?

Thanks but I think the need for mat'l reverse engineering has past. BUT... ...you're on the list. We will keep you in our pocket for a later date when we might just pull you out and use you.

Thanks again.

Joe J.

[ZZII 527]

Thanks again for your hard work this week, Joe. Cool heads will prevail and I hope we don't scare away suppliers...the more the better.

Thanks also for the drawings. I sort-of guessed from measurement, knowing it was metric, but that will help a lot. I am going to try to cut some test carriers out of O1 or A1 tool steel (similar in hardness to the 42mm carrier and capable of being tempered). It will mean hunting for waterjet time, which is tough because there is a class that uses them a lot right about this time of January/February. But I'll let everone know how it goes.

[Ted_Z]

Good work on the drawings Joe. Is there any reason why a single plate couldn't be used for both the 4:1 and 3:1 ratios? Just rotate one bolt pattern by 36 degrees relative to the other. That might make the manufacturing of replacement plates more streamlined.

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by Ted_Z

Good work on the drawings Joe. Is there any reason why a single plate couldn't be used for both the 4:1 and 3:1 ratios? Just rotate one bolt pattern by 36 degrees relative to the other. That might make the manufacturing of replacement plates more streamlined.

The only reason not to is that if you are making a bunch of them the price will be a bit higher. For ones and twos, the set up cost would swamp the extra machine time so it is likely that you could get all 10 holes for almost the same price as just 5.

You pays your money and you gets your choice...

Joe J.

[billbo911]

Team Update #9 is out. In it the Carrier plate is addressed. Currently BaneBots is in the process of manufacturing new parts. The method of distribution is being worked on.

Excerpt from Team Update #9
"...Replacement plates are currently being manufactured by BaneBots for all transmissions distributed to the FIRST community. These plates will be available and distributed to teams by BaneBots at no additional charge. We are currently working on a distribution method to insure that teams receive them promptly...."

[WaterFreak]

Originally Posted by billbo911

Team Update #9 is out. In it the Carrier plate is addressed. Currently BaneBots is in the process of manufacturing new parts. The method of distribution is being worked on.

Excerpt from Team Update #9
"...Replacement plates are currently being manufactured by BaneBots for all transmissions distributed to the FIRST community. These plates will be available and distributed to teams by BaneBots at no additional charge. We are currently working on a distribution method to insure that teams receive them promptly...."

YEAH, good news indeed :-)

[Doug G]

Just the news we're hoping for!!! Because they still haven't figured out distribution method, I figure teams will be making this fix at their first comp. I mean for teams to receive them by the end of next week, they'd have to ship out next Monday. Can they even make a couple thousand plates in less than a week?

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Doug G

Just the news we're hoping for!!! Because they still haven't figured out distribution method, I figure teams will be making this fix at their first comp. I mean for teams to receive them by the end of next week, they'd have to ship out next Monday. Can they even make a couple thousand plates in less than a week?

Check your rule book. The FIX-IT WINDOW rules allow for teams to buy/manufacture spare parts and replacement parts. Since stronger carrier plates are obviously replacement parts, the ship deadline is obviously not as important. Especially considering this is an official FIRST replacement part. At worst, I can see FIRST distributing these at the regionals. I feel safe in saying that any team could replace both carrier plates in under an hour with a little help.

[Ricky Q.]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Check your rule book. The FIX-IT WINDOW rules allow for teams to buy/manufacture spare parts and replacement parts. Since stronger carrier plates are obviously replacement parts, the ship deadline is obviously not as important. Especially considering this is an official FIRST replacement part. At worst, I can see FIRST distributing these at the regionals. I feel safe in saying that any team could replace both carrier plates in under an hour with a little help.

Still only gives teams until the Friday after ship, 2/23.

The timing of these “FIX-IT WINDOWS” is at the discretion of the team, but all work must be completed by 5:00pm on the Friday following the ROBOT shipment deadline.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Ricky Q.

Still only gives teams until the Friday after ship, 2/23.

Keep reading.

<R22> During the “FIX-IT WINDOW” following each Regional Competition weekend: During this
period, all teams (not just those teams attending a Regional Competition) may utilize one or
two 5-hour FIX-IT-WINDOWS to manufacture SPARE, REPLACEMENT and UPGRADE
PARTS and develop software for their ROBOT at their home facility (not at the competition
site). The timing of these “FIX-IT WINDOWS” is at the discretion of the team, but all work
must be completed between the opening of the Competition (at 8:30 am on the Thursday
of the Competition weekend)and 8:30 am on the Thursday following the Competition
weekend. At the conclusion of a regional competition event, teams may take a limited
amount of broken or malfunctioning COMPONENTS or MECHANISMS back to their home
facility to make SPARE or REPLACEMENT PARTS. The purpose of this rule is to allow
teams to make critical repairs to existing parts to enable them to compete in following
events. The intent of this rule is not to have teams take their entire ROBOT back home and
make large-scale revisions or upgrades to the ROBOT. Teams may manufacture and/or
repair all the parts they want, but the amount of parts they can bring to the competition
event is limited (as specified in Rule <R31>).

That said, a competition-day switch wouldn't faze me in the least. I have empirical evidence that shows even a marketing major can tear a pair of these down and rebuild them in well under an hour with one allen key.

[Dick Linn]

1018 and 1020 steel can be hardened somewhat. The critical part is the rate of cooling, which is the reason for the salt and surfactants. The vapor barrier between the hot steel and the quenchant must be minimized. The Manganese content of the steel may also be a factor.

Another method is to use a high-pressure stream, as in the case of the process in U.S. patent # 3294599. This patent claims an increase in strength from 40-60,000 PSI to 155-250,000 PSI in steels having from .08 to .25 percent carbon content.

[travis]

Before I could tell them not to bother, our (lockheed) lab guys snuck a carrier plate in between shooting space shuttle parts. I cast another vote for 1010-1020 series.

They used an X-ray fluorescent (XRF) machine to determine the alloy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_fluorescence

The reson you need to put detergent in your quenching liquid, and that you can firewalk, was discovered by this stern looking indiviual:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost

My edition (27) of machinery's handbook lists this series in the carburizing heat treatable alloys table at 900C (that is 1650F in christian units) follwed by plunge in water/brine with 170C/325F optional tempering. So if you want to do some mad science, and get yelled at by mom for experimenting in the kitchen (for the tempering anyhow), boldly go, the replacements are in the mail if you wreck them.

Travis

[esquared]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Keep reading.



That said, a competition-day switch wouldn't faze me in the least. I have empirical evidence that shows even a marketing major can tear a pair of these down and rebuild them in well under an hour with one allen key.

It's not the time required to disassemble the tranny to replace the plate. It's the time required to disassemble everything, get to, and remove the tranny that is a concern. Considering the number of teams who will still be getting their robot working during the day before/during practice rounds at the regional, having them at the regional will definitely cut into their time to get finished.

[ZZII 527]

Originally Posted by esquared

It's not the time required to disassemble the tranny to replace the plate. It's the time required to disassemble everything, get to, and remove the tranny that is a concern. Considering the number of teams who will still be getting their robot working during the day before/during practice rounds at the regional, having them at the regional will definitely cut into their time to get finished.

If this does wind up being a Thursday fix at the regionals, teams should prepare by making sure that they have a process for getting out the gearboxes. Something to press the pins out will be useful too...a table top drill press can probably work. And don't rush the job...it's better to spend an hour or two making sure the alignment is good and the gearboxes are broken in than to find out on Saturday that you have nothing but rounded off brass cylinders where your planets used to be.

That being said, if you are a team using 12:1, 1 CIM (like many rookies, I'd imagine), have been driving around for a while and haven't notice any major backlash problems, and have taken appropriate software measures to reduce shock loading, would you still repair these on Thursday at a regional? I'm not sure that I would.